Posted: 9:55 am Wednesday, July 16th, 2014

Sam Olens on the hot seat over Holly LaBerge memo 

By Greg Bluestein, Daniel Malloy and Jim Galloway

Looks like fallout from an ethics probe that, years later, has yet to touch bottom will be the theme of the day.

Late Tuesday, Attorney General Sam Olens issued this lengthy explanation of why a memo written by Holly LaBerge in July 2012, alleging a threat from Gov. Nathan Deal’s lawyer to hamstring the state ethics commission, never made it into the hands of attorneys for employees who say they were sacked for investigating the governor’s 2010 campaign.

Your daily jolt on politics from the AJC's Political insider blogSaid Olens:

“Our civil lawyers determined it was not responsive to the discovery request in the civil litigation.”

In other words, the whistleblowers’ attorneys didn’t ask the right question that might have prompted the memo’s release. However, Olens said he did advise LaBerge to turn it over when the feds asked for relevant documents.

Not everyone is buying into the attorney general’s distinction. “If you gave it to the FBI, why wouldn’t you give it to the [Stacey] Kalberman case?” wondered Martha Zoller, the former GOP congressional candidate, this morning on WGAU (1340AM) in Athens.

Olens has a Democratic opponent this year – the lightly funded Greg Hecht, an attorney and former state senator. From his press release:

“Time and again Sam Olens has refused to act like the state’s chief law enforcement officer and investigate possible law breaking at the highest levels of state government. I want to be an attorney general who investigates and prosecutes corruption, not defend it and help cover it up by not investigating and withholding evidence.”

Then there was this stinging parallel from Lee Parks, attorney for Holly LaBerge – the state ethics commission’s current top staffer. From an interview with the AJC’s Nick Fouriezos and Lori Geary of Channel 2 Action News:

“If the president’s chief of staff reached out to a federal agency and said, ‘You need to stop investigating my president or we will shut you down,’ that would probably be news.

“If that came out before President Obama’s re-election, he probably wouldn’t have been re-elected.”

Fouriezos also followed Jason Carter, Deal’s general election opponent, to Calhoun this weekend, and spotted a line or two in the Democrat’s stump speech that will probably be honed to reflect this week’s happenings.

As he has done in the past, Carter made specific mention of former Dalton mayor David Pennington, one of two GOP primary challengers to Deal — and the one who emphasized the ethics scandal:

“All of our Republican friends in northwest Georgia – don’t be afraid to go talk to them about what we’re doing, because they agree with us. My friend, who is the mayor of Dalton, who ran as a tea party candidate, when I called him the day after the [May 20] election, he said to me, ‘You know what I see when I travel this state? We are getting too poor to have a business climate that works.”

***

Seven days out from the end of the Republican race for U.S. Senate, Jack Kingston has landed the endorsement of tea partyer, former Republican presidential candidate, and U.S. House colleague Michele Bachmann:

***

And yet U.S. Rep. Jack Kingston declined to comment this week when the Washington Post asked him about the brewing movement among GOP lawmakers to impeach President Barack Obama.

But in a radio interview on the Aaron McCready Show two week ago, Kingston was a bit more circumspect. Here’s the transcript:

Kingston: Not a day goes by when people don’t talk to us about impeachment. I don’t know what rises to that level yet, but I know that there’s a mounting frustration that a lot of people are getting to and I think Congress is going to start looking at it very seriously.

McCready: Well, if this lawsuit, and I said this in the first half of the show. I’m concerned about this lawsuit because, and first of all, I agree that the president needs to be held accountable. But with this lawsuit, by the time there’s any resolution in it, he’ll be out of office, so is this maybe the first step to issue articles of impeachment?

Kingston: You know, it could go in that direction if there was a big discussion. I mean, I think it’s possible, it keeps getting worse and worse. It could go in that direction.

***

Coming to a mailbox near you: The David Perdue-aligned CWA PAC is sending out $94,000 worth of mailers attacking Rep. Jack Kingston ahead of Tuesday’s Senate runoff. When you get yours, please do think of your humble Insiders and send a digital copy our way.

***

The U.S. House on Tuesday overwhelmingly approved a bill to send $11 billion to the highway trust fund so it does not run out of money next month. Conservative groups opposed the bill for relying on budget gimmicks and extending a program some believe should not exist at all.

All of Georgia’s Democrats voted for the bill, as well as the Republicans who live in Atlanta’s trafficky sprawl: Tom Price of Roswell, Phil Gingrey of Marietta and Rob Woodall of Lawrenceville. Rep. Tom Graves of Ranger also was in favor, after getting an amendment into the bill saying that Congress should completely reform transportation funding next  year. (Graves has written a bill to do just that.)

Reps. Paul Broun of Athens, Doug Collins of Gainesville, Austin Scott of Tifton and Lynn Westmoreland of Coweta County voted no, while Jack Kingston of Savannah did not show. It is Senate campaign crunch time, after all.

***

Liberal magazine Mother Jones pokes a few holes in the warning that U.S. Rep. Phil Gingrey offered up last week about disease-carrying border children. But here’s the kicker: Gingrey, the magazine pointed out, is against mandatory vaccinations in the U.S.

Gingrey has long-standing ties to the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, a far-right medical group that opposes all mandatory vaccines. The organization touts access to Gingrey as one of its membership perks. (The AAPS has, incidentally, taken the lead in pushing the idea that migrant children are disease carriers.) In 2007, he wrote an amendment that would allow parents to block their children from receiving HPV vaccines, which are designed to combat cervical cancer.

The Gingrey camp said he is not against vaccines, just against making them mandatory for public school enrollment. Here’s what Gingrey had to say on the floor about that 2007 amendment:

“There are many reasons parents and students might object to mandatory HPV vaccination, from age-appropriateness to concerns over vaccine safety.  Whatever the reason, it is a discussion for parents and physicians, not legislators and bureaucrats.

“Excluding children from school for refusal to be vaccinated for a disease spread only by sexual intercourse is a serious, precedent-setting action that trespasses on the right of parents to make medical decisions for their children, as well as on the rights of the children to attend school.”

***

On Tuesday, the Congressional Budget Office offered up yet another stark warning about a $17 trillion federal debt:

Between 2009 and 2012, the federal government recorded the largest budget deficits relative to the size of the economy since 1946, causing its debt to soar. The total amount of federal debt held by the public is now equivalent to about 74 percent of the economy’s annual output, or gross domestic product (GDP)—a higher percentage than at any point in U.S. history except a brief period around World War II and almost twice the percentage at the end of 2008.

If current laws remained generally unchanged in the future, federal debt held by the public would decline slightly relative to GDP over the next few years, CBO projects. After that, however, growing budget deficits would push debt back to and above its current high level. Twenty-five years from now, in 2039, federal debt held by the public would exceed 100 percent of GDP, CBO projects. Moreover, debt would be on an upward path relative to the size of the economy, a trend that could not be sustained indefinitely.

And yet U.S. Sen. Saxby Chambliss and his bipartisan push for a series of spending and tax loophole cuts to address the debt has proven to be the electrified third rail in the current Republican contest to replace him.

From Chambliss on Tuesday:

“Every day, we are confronted with yet another domestic or national security threat: illegal immigrants, mistreated veterans, cyber attacks and terrorist plots. What we must remember- and what this report shows- is if we don’t get our $17 trillion dollar debt under control, then we will not have the ability to fix crises like these in the future.

“[U.S. Sen. Mark Warner, D-Va.)] and I laid out a solution with our Gang of Six plan – so did Bowles-Simpson and Domenici-Rivlin. The answer is there. We just need Washington to stop playing politics with our country’s future and act.”

***

Augusta businessman Rick Allen does not have the cash of Rep. John Barrow, D-Augusta, but he has started replenishing his campaign coffers after winning a five-way primary without a runoff.

Allen raised $323,591 in May and June, leaving himself with $225,567 on hand at the start of the month. He spent $278,635 in that span, most of it to get through the primary.

Allen also loaned his campaign $75,000 and converted another $90,000 of previous loans to a self-contribution. Campaign spokesman Dan McLagan points out that Allen is ahead of Lee Anderson’s fundraising pace at this point in the 2012 cycle — but Anderson still had to contend with an August runoff that completely depleted his bank account.

Barrow raised $465,814 from April through June, spent $108,587 and had $1,871,413 on hand. He’s ahead of his 2012 pace, too — by a half million dollars.

***

It’s safe to say Gov. Nathan Deal hasn’t ruled out legislation to legalize medical marijuana next year. He just wants to tread very carefully.

He told us last week he won’t support any legislation that interferes with a pair of clinical trials that could soon be underway in Georgia. That stance infuriated some parents of children with debilitating seizures who hoped for more immediate relief and led to a quiet behind-the-scenes push from supporters.

On Tuesday, he made clear that he was not ruling out legislation that would decriminalize possession of cannabis oil – the heart of a proposal that state Rep. Allen Peake and other supporters are pushing.

Said Deal:

“If we can do something that is helpful legislatively that does not cause interference with that process, then certainly I’d be willing to entertain it. And certainly I know Representative Peake is working in good faith.”

123 comments
JamesPWesberryJr
JamesPWesberryJr

"Georgia Ethics Commission" is an oxymoron. Has been for well over 200 years. Apparently will be for 200 more.

partlycloudy
partlycloudy

Who voted for Olens?  I didn't.  He's another bigot tea party person who came out of Cobb County.  Didn't he speak at a tea party rally in savannah this year?  One more tea party bigot.  Without ethics of course.

jaxspp
jaxspp

Doesn't matter, as long as he has an (R) by his name Georgia would vote for Jack the Ripper or Adolf Hitler.

lithoniaguy
lithoniaguy

If CROOKED DEAL created jobs for Georgians, that means government create jobs. But conservatives say government don't create jobs.

cc423
cc423

Gov. Deal has done a great job of surrounding himself with henchmen who do all of his dirty work.

BrownianMotion
BrownianMotion

Most corrupt state governments in the U.S.


Louisiana

New Jersey

Georgia

New York


Congratulations!  Well done!!!

Mandingo
Mandingo

Our state  government reeks of corruption , low morals , mis-guided value systems and an absolute disdain for public service. Only the rookies end up getting punished for their behavior . Career  criminal / politicians like Gov. Deal retire millionaires.

taters
taters

COVERUP BY DEAL AND HIS FLUNKIES!!!!

scrappy-22
scrappy-22

“There are many reasons CEOs and Management might object to BC Pills, from appropriateness to concerns over safety.  Whatever the reason, it is a discussion for women and physicians, not legislators and bureaucrats.

“Excluding women from decision-making by refusal of BC PIlls is a serious, precedent-setting action that trespasses on the right of women to make medical decisions for themselves, as well as on the rights of the women to attend school or the workforce.”


Amazing... just change a few words from his little speech and I couldn't agree more.  Too bad he (and supporters like him) will never see the hypocrisy. 



scrappy-22
scrappy-22

Michelle is endorsing Kingston... that seals the deal for me. I will be crossing over to the GOP primary to vote for Perdue. 

Red_GA
Red_GA

I find it ironic that when Obama talks about government creating jobs and who actually built the economy, many conservatives jumped all up and down his case. Suddenly, when an economic outlook is rosy here in GA, conservatives tout a "conservative" governor for being the responsible party for creating these jobs...going as far as using it as fodder in his reelection. Deal's policies brought jobs to the state? Deal himself was responsible for this effort? Deal turned the economy of the state around? So we are saying that a government official and government policies are what built this economy? But I thought as a conservative 1)we are against government involvement in the economy and private sector and 2)government does not create jobs, hard working people do, investors do, heads of companies do. 


Sounds to me like Deal is a dabbler in the dark arts of socialism. Between that and his ethics problems, I find it strange conservatives are so adamant about reelecting him. Between the two critical issues of private sector/free market capitalism and corruption/ethics you'd think the boogeyman Obama had put on a Deal mask. Maybe that is what Obama should do. Incompetent AG, ethics issues, abuse of government power, and government control/interference of the economy as well as expensive overseas trips with massive delegations....


Dear Mr. President,


In order to remake your image and change your poll numbers I have created a Nathan Deal mask for you to wear. Its image is popular with southern conservative Republicans and will help you be able to get away with all sorts of things.

honested
honested

On another note, it is truly a shame that the Georgia Delegation couldn't take the lead in approving a MINOR increase in the Federal Motor Fuel Tax and SOLVE the Highway Trust Fund problem. 

This no-tax-increase-not-time-ever-for-any-reason nonsense will only INCREASE THE COSTS of eventually repairing our infrastructure.

BrownianMotion
BrownianMotion

georgia taxpayers---paying millions for all these political fatcats to take 5 star junkets to the "holy land" for some phony trade meeting--the fraud and waste never ends in this corrupt state

Old_Man
Old_Man

@midtowncowboy In fact, let's give you a chance to retract your comments about wanting:

David Axelrod

Jason Carter

Holly LaBerge

Lee Parks

to be "shot in the back of the head," or get there "heads shot off."

If you're listening, here's you chance to take it back.  Otherwise, I suppose the AJC is going to send your comments to someone in law enforcement.

Old_Man
Old_Man

@midtowncowboy

And when you do, I would love to hear you whimper and apologize.

Just like a little boy.

Old_Man
Old_Man

@midtowncowboy

midtown cowboy.

You need to watch yourself, little boy.  You're going to buy yourself a visit from the FBI.

midtowncowboy
midtowncowboy

@lithoniaguy


Do you have the IQ of a sea urchin?  Do you understand the difference between jobs on the federal payroll and jobs in private business?

td1234
td1234

@cc423 Welcome to the world of politics (no matter the party).

td1234
td1234

@taters Where is the cover up? Deal was found guilty of campaign irregularities and paid a fine. There was nothing more this commission could have done under the law than to have fined him in the first place. 


This is nothing more than a butt hurt King Roy Barnes and his Better Georgia organization attempting to run a campaign in GA. on trumped up corruption charges because they know they can not run on the progressive agenda.   

Wascatlady
Wascatlady

@scrappy-22 If you voted in the Democratic primary in May, you cannot cross over in the Republican run off primary in July.

MoFaux
MoFaux

@Red_GA Don't be silly.  Wearing white-face is an impeachable offense. :-)

td1234
td1234

@BrownianMotion These so called "junkets" have produced millions of dollars and many jobs to Georgians. 


You can blame Deal for a great deal of things including being corrupt but he has done a great job at bringing money and jobs to Georgia from other countries around the world. 

midtowncowboy
midtowncowboy

@Old_Man


You need to be careful about who you accuse of doing what.  I don't see any comments related to what you are claiming.  You must be a senile old_man.  

honested
honested

@td1234 @cc423 

You also have a distorted view of 'public service'.

Hint, it isn't 'anything for a buck'.

HueyMahl
HueyMahl

@td1234 @taters I hesitate to respond to trolls, but here is the coverup:


Kalberman was vigorously investigating Deal's funneling of money to shell companies he or family members controlled controlled.  Kalbeman requested permission to issue subpoenas.  18 days later, the Governor's aides are secretly interviewing Holly Laberge (not an attorney and no experience in running an investigative agency, btw).  About a month after that,  Kalberman is out, her investigator is fired and Laberge is in.


Laberge never issue subpeonas, never properly investigated the case and allegedly conspired to destroy evidence of Deal's malfeasance.  When she was not acting fast enough, Deal's aides threatened her and the agency.  In the end, most of the violations were dismissed for lack of evidence BECAUSE LABERGE DID NOT INVESTIGATE!


And to make matters worse, Sam Olens violated the law and breached his ethical duties as an attorney by not turning over evidence during the discovery process.


So, instead of a snarky comment, prove you are not a troll and refute with support ANY of these facts.

cc423
cc423

@td1234 @BrownianMotion What jobs? What money? I have not heard of a single job being crated by this trip Deal took with his friends and wife.

HarryCrews
HarryCrews

@td1234 @BrownianMotion


Sir: At your convenience please correlate the Junkets and Millions of $ and many jobs brought here. Perhaps start with the trip depicted above with Olens and Deal in Jerusalem.


Additionally, the person requesting net jobs in the last four years after the net losses of 2002-2010 is still waiting.


Thank you

MoFaux
MoFaux

@td1234 @BrownianMotion Please tell me how it shakes out when you include the sweetheart tax credits/handouts these companies are getting.  I'm not convinced adding some jobs by rewarding the business owner is a net plus financially speaking.  I would like to see the state competition for businesses by handing out corporate welfare come to an end.  Come to Georgia because you like our peaches and strip clubs (kind of joking there, not a fan myself)...not because our Governor offered you a million dollars more of tax credits than Texas did.  It levels the playing field.

Red_GA
Red_GA

@td1234 So you admit government creates jobs? Not dabbling in socialism are you?

honested
honested

@td1234 @BrownianMotion 

What has been the net 'job gain' in the last 4 years?

What is it after removing the net job loss from 2002-2010?

td1234
td1234

@HueyMahl Troll? I have been on this blog for many. many years. It is your user name that is new and trolling with misinformation. 


1: Georgia is an at will state and all agency heads work at the will of the governor. Kalberman was just another agency executive that was replaced by Deal when he took office in 2011. For you to attempt to make something wrong with her being fired is total BS since in also happened to more than 20 other executive positions in the state. 


2: LaBerge ran her investigation the way she saw fit and found the Governor's campaign guilty of campaign irregularities and they paid a fine. To accuse her of not investigating is a lie.


3: Sam Olen's stated clearly that he followed the law and turned over every piece of information asked from the plaintiff's. Just because the plaintiff's attorney does not know how to ask for discovery does not mean that Olen's is guilty of anything. Now where is your evidence of Sam being in breach of ethical compliance? Where is a Judge's ruling? Is there even a complaint filed. 


Now Mr. Troll, please prove with any EVIDENCE that my interpretation is incorrect. 

td1234
td1234

@MoFaux So the other alternative is no jobs and no new business in Georgia or the business adding the jobs in a state like NY that is guaranteeing all new businesses 10 YEARS of paying zero taxes in their commercials.  

td1234
td1234

@Red_GA @td1234 Again with the definitions, Socialism is where the government CONTROLS either directly of by regulation the means and output of a company. 


Offering tax incentives to a business to move to your state is not control over the actual business so it is no where close to Socialism. 


If you want to look at an example of Socialism then look no further than Obamacare. 

honested
honested

@td1234 @HueyMahl 

Your delusions that your 'good little reubliklan' status will be rewarded is hilarious.

Reality and the laws so governing will not change simply because a few will not accept the facts.

HueyMahl
HueyMahl

@td1234 @HueyMahl


Wow, each point is so far removed from the facts.  But since you asked:


1.  Georgia being an at-will state is irrelevant.  That has to do with whether you are required to join a union or not. Kalberman was not appointed by Deal, she was appointed by the commission.  The commission was appointed by Deal, the Speaker of the House and the President Pro Tempore of the Senate.  Kalberman was not fired.  Her pay was slashed as retaliation for investigating deal - this is the conclusion of the jury.


2.  Laberge certainly ran her investigation the way she saw fit.  Coincidentally, in a way that resulted in no real investigation.  That is not a lie. That is backed up by her own sworn testimony.


3.  Sam Olens claims he followed the law, but that is a lie.  The plaintiff's attorney asked for the memo in three different ways, Pursuant to an open records request, pursuant to a request for production of all documents relating to the Deal investigation and pursuant to a request for all correspondence or evidence of correspondence.  The memo falls under all three categories.  You are repeating Deal talking points without any clue to the underlying facts.


As far as the AG's breach of ethical compliance, that is an allegation at this point.  There is no judge ruling yet, because it just came to light Sunday.  The parties have not yet had the opportunity to go before a judge, but I expect they will.


There you go, every single fact refuted, and I even knocked down that straw-man you tried to put up at the end.


And sorry for calling you a troll.  Clearly you are just a partisan hack trying to stir the pot instead of contributing something of value.

RonMexico
RonMexico

@td1234@HueyMahl Nice effort at rewriting history, but no.


1. Yes, Georgia is an at-will state. "At-will" does not, however, mean you can fire someone who is in the middle of investigating your administration for malfeasance. Do you need to be reminded that the State just paid out $1.15 million of YOUR tax dollars to Kalbermann as restitution for her illegal firing, plus another $2 million to other employees fired for the exact same reason? I suppose you do, since you've clearly already forgotten (or, more accurately, you're dissembling and hoping everyone else will forget). 


2. LaBerge did not run her investigation the way she saw fit. She ran the investigation that the governor's office saw fit, which is to say, she ran no investigation at all. All of this information is available as public record from Kalbermann's lawsuit, which, if you had any interest in truth, you would already have read.


3. Why did Sam Olen's office advise LaBerge to provide her memo to the FBI, but not to Kalbermann's attorneys during discovery? Could it be because they knew perfectly well that it would result in further trouble for our crooked governor? 


Wascatlady
Wascatlady

@td1234 @HueyMahl td, can you respond to the charge that Deal et al were looking for a syncophant (how did that work out) to replace Kalberman before they got her to quit by gutting her pay and that of her office?


And what "Sam Olens stated clearly" may or may not be so.  If all file documents are requested, and he did not send all of them, then he is not being truthful, is he?


If a R states something it is true, but if a D states it it is not?  Is that how your broad brush works?  Convenient.


And yes, Deal took out or created dozens of positions for his ill-equipped friends and ill-equipped family.  While all governors put their own people in place after election, Deal's reign has been striking because of the numbers and lack of experienced people he has placed.



Red_GA
Red_GA

@td1234 So now you like welfare as well as dabbling in socialism. Subsidies and welfare from government to pass on a tax burden to others. I think you have a little blue under that red skin of yours. Don't tell your friends though. They may revoke your membership card.

honested
honested

@td1234 

Interesting, you find corporate welfare to be a good thing but abhor adequate health care for people.

What is the root of your philosophy?

MoFaux
MoFaux

@td1234 How so?  I said it would have to be done federally (or at least, that is what I was referring to by killing state competition), meaning no states could do that, hence my "level the playing field" comment.  But, unlike you, I'm not an expert on every subject.  I am certainly no economist...I just wonder how our state tax revenue shakes out when you consider how much more we get for the new jobs, minus what we are giving away to the employer.  Each business would be different, but I would like to know the answer.  States do this because they are forced to compete, not necessarily because it's such an awesome deal.  Governors (from both parties) get to tout job numbers, ad nauseum...but are we really benefiting financially?

Chris30338
Chris30338

@td1234 @Red_GA """Again with the definitions, Socialism is where the government CONTROLS either directly of by regulation the means and output of a company""".

Seriously??? By regulation??? Where the heck did that definition come from? The Right-Wing Dictionary?

Here's the what the Oxford dictionary definition:(Notice the difference?)


A political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

 

Red_GA
Red_GA

@td1234 You may need to study up on the spectrum of socialism. And you may want to get an understanding of the definition of "dabbling" as well. If an economy of a state depends on government policy, in this case corporate welfare (bribery) to flourish it is government control. If government did not act in this case, these companies would not have come here. If the government took its bribery away these means of production would leave. It is NOT free market methods taking place here - the companies are not coming on their own market conditions. The market did not pull them here. Demand did not pull them here. Government forces did. 

Tax incentives to one group at the expense of another. So again, how does that apply to your "conservative" beliefs? How does robbing Peter to pay (incentivize) Paul work for free market principles? How does taking even more tax money from one group to offset differences equate? Obama offers tax incentives for green tech and you go ape feces. Deal does and it is fine. He's the greatest thing since sliced bread. In no way is this true capitalism and conservatism. Anyone calling themselves these labels but yet cheering on Deal's policies is a hypocrite and a liar. Feel free to praise Deal's efforts but just be honest with what you call yourself.

HueyMahl
HueyMahl

@td1234 Looks like Tiny Dong 1234 has thrown in the towel on this one. Facts are much harder to deal with than his usual talking point drivel.

td1234
td1234

@Red_GA @td1234 Make up the definitions to words much? Welfare is something you give to a person and there is no return on your investment. 


It is called business incentive and when a state gives a business incentive then the business puts money into that local economy by giving people jobs and by purchasing materials and other services from the local community. 


Political talking points are for fools. 

td1234
td1234

@honested It is not corporate welfare it is business incentives and with the incentives the community receives a return on the investment. 

td1234
td1234

@MoFaux Federal rules do nothing but kill competition and drive jobs overseas while state competition allows jobs to stay here where the winners benefit with boast to the local economy and as a result the overall Federal economy improves. 

honested
honested

@Red_GA @td1234 

Good luck with that.

Tiny dog cleaves to the definition of 'Socialism' as noots instilled in him when he was an impressionable young moron.

Accepting the life's rich pageant just isn't in his cards.

RoadScholar
RoadScholar

@td1234 @Red_GA No return on investment? They live! They spend the money and it turns over many times in the economy!

As Red stated, when does YOUR dictionary come out?

Red_GA
Red_GA

@td1234 Twist the definition all you want. It is public aid. Welfare is public assistance. Your "no return" part is your own addition. You may want to stop defining words and terms yourself. At the end of the day it is government bribing, enticing, luring, etc. with tax dollars or lack of. There is NO guarantee of a return in this case. Not all of these give a return investment. There are hundreds of cases where your "incentives" turn negative. Your efforts to spin are flawed. Just admit. You like government aid programs. These companies would not have come if it were not for government assistance. Admit government is the reason they come. 

coj
coj

@td1234 @Red_GA When "business incentives" are tax credits and utility rate reductions, who pays the difference? WE DO, the citizens who's incentives have been demonized and reduced or eliminated.

honested
honested

@td1234 @honested 

Those 'incentives' have a very demonstrable COST to the taxpayers writ large.

Couch it in any bogus terms you wish, it doesn't change anything.

RoadScholar
RoadScholar

@td1234 @honested If I don't have to pay taxes,Ii think that's an incentive for me. Where is my "corporate welfare"? My profit line would improve and I could hire more people to take care of my home. And if companies get it why not poor people, er...I mean the moochers you crow about?!

RoadScholar
RoadScholar

@td1234 @MoFaux Yeah those fed rules on clean air and water are really detrimental! We do not need any wetlands either do we? no erosion control so we can fill those wetlands and rivers and streams with silt!


Are you really that biased against what the citizenry wants and needs? Oh and you're losing the arguments above!

MoFaux
MoFaux

@td1234 @MoFaux Yes, but part of this would include tax increases on those shipping jobs overseas.  Obviously.