Posted: 10:34 am Thursday, June 5th, 2014

Local angst over Georgia’s new concealed-carry law bubbles up 

By Greg Bluestein and Jim Galloway

 A city hall is a city hall is a city hall. Unless it’s also a courthouse, in which case it becomes exempt from HB 60, Georgia’s new concealed-carry law — which goes into effect on July 1. From the 11Alive website:

Mayor Bucky Johnson says he’s asking the city council to officially re-name the building “Norcross City Hall and Municipal Court.”

Your daily jolt on politics from the AJC's Political insider blog…The name change is significant. Under the new law, guns are prohibited in courthouses with security checkpoints. But other government buildings like city halls are not afforded the same protection.

The Norcross City Hall and Municipal Courthouse are housed in the same building. Although there are separate entrances for each and only a security checkpoint outside municipal court.

“They are undermining the intent of the law,” Jerry Henry with Georgia Carry said.

HB 60, which expands the places where permitted owners can carry concealed, is also creating some angst in Macon, where authorities say they may have to allow weapons inside the city-owned Macon Centreplex and Macon City Auditorium.

The new law says that government-owned venues that provide security don’t have to permit concealed weaponry, according to its author. We’ll let Georgia Public Broadcasting pick up the thread:

But Crystal Jones, senior assistant attorney for the Macon-Bibb County government, said the law only gives that option to “government offices.”

“Because they do not house government entities, or there are not government meetings taking place in those facilities, they don’t constitute a government building which is able to have security personnel screening everyone,” Jones said.

The same problem could affect Phillips Arena, home of the NBA’s Atlanta Hawks, she said. That stadium is owned by the Atlanta Fulton County Recreation Authority.

Under Jones’ interpretation of the law, the problem would not affect Turner Field where the Atlanta Braves play, because the recreation authority houses its own offices there, thus qualifying the facility as a “government office.”

So this morning, we called the folks at Phillips Arena. Apparently, they’re not into hair-splitting interpretations of HB 60. The statement attributed to Atlanta Hawks and Philips Arena CEO Steve Koonin:

“As has been the case since Philips Arena opened in 1999, guests are not permitted to bring any weapons, including firearms, into the facility. The Georgia Safe Carry Protection Act does not affect this policy.”

***

We’ve told you about the alliance that is quickly building in and around the state Capitol on no-knock warrants in the wake of last week’s raid on a Habersham County that left a 19-month-old toddler in the Grady burn unit in Atlanta.

Earlier this week, Gov. Nathan Deal didn’t close the door on putting restrictions on when and how warrants allowing unannounced entry by police are issued. But he sounded a note of caution:

“It’s important that we know as many of the facts surrounding this. I know that these are dedicated law enforcement officers, and certainly they feel as bad as the rest of us feel when you have a tragedy like this occur. But in order to know what if anything we can learn from it, we have to wait until the report is complete.”

He followed up on that this morning when asked about the potential proposal, saying that it’s a question he plans to refer to his criminal justice reform council. He said he was willing to weigh new restrictions but added, “I’m not there yet.”

“Just as sometimes we have a tendency legislatively to rush into things without during proper analysis, I think we have to avoid that and make sure if we do make legislative changes with regard to no-knock warrants that we’ve taken all considerations into play. We need to hear from the law enforcement community.”

His Democratic rival, Jason Carter, was less tentative in a statement issued Wednesday:

“We’ve known about the dangers of no-knock warrants for a long time. This incident in Cornelia is a heartbreaking example of what can happen, and we need to do everything we can to prevent anything like it from happening again. I continue to support the bipartisan reforms that [state Sen. Jeff Mullis, R-Chickamauga, and state Sen. Vincent Fort, D-Atlanta] have proposed to limit no-knock warrants.”

***

Joe Dendy called Wednesday to spread the word that the Cobb County GOP will be hosting a one-hour breakfast debate Saturday between the two surviving GOP candidates for state school superintendent, Mike Buck and Richard Woods. The Republican party chairman said he was concerned that not enough voters are familiar with the pair, who emerged from a field of nine candidates.

The festivities start at 8:30 a.m. Here’s the address: 799 Roswell Street, Marietta, GA 30060.

***

It wasn’t on the agenda, but this morning David Perdue and Jack Kingston, the two runoff candidates for U.S. Senate,  sat before members of the Georgia Chamber of Commerce gathered on St. Simons Island. Questions to both were posed by Chris Clark, president and CEO of the Chamber. We’ll see if we can get our spies to send us more info on the closed proceedings.

***

U.S. Rep. Phil Gingrey’s Wednesday endorsement of his congressional colleague, Jack Kingston, was standard fare – with perhaps one observation by the man from Marietta.

Gingrey said he was urged by his own supporters to endorse Kingston. Not one of his people pushed him toward businessman David Perdue, he said. “Not one. Nada. And that really influenced my decision – very much so,” he added.

***

Former Dollar General CEO David Perdue has been pressing runoff rival Jack Kingston to release 10 years of his tax returns – as Perdue has done.

At the press conference with Gingrey, Kingston said he has done so. Reporters may inspect them at his headquarters, by appointment, his campaign spokesman said.

***

The timing of the federal warning not to begin drug testing food stamp recipients came at an inopportune time for Gov. Nathan Deal. It came minutes after the Food and Nutrition Service lifted its threat to fine the state for a backlog in the food stamp process that caused thousands of Georgians to lose their benefits.

Deal’s office released a rather tepid statement late Tuesday saying he’s referred the warning letter to Attorney General Sam Olens. His rhetoric was notably different from state Rep. Greg Morris, the sponsor of the drug-testing law, who vowed the state will fight it in court. Here’s what Deal said on Wednesday:

“I have not received any word back from his office, but I expect very soon that he will give us some direction in that regard,” said Deal, who quickly shifted gears. “But I would point out on the good side of the news that we have in the food stamp arena is that now we have eliminated the backlog and we are very pleased with that so that people who are eligible to receive those benefits can receive them in a timely fashion.”

It was a dose of good news for Deal’s administration. He has ordered millions of dollars of spending to bring in extra workers, replace the call-in system and fix back-office issues that could have cost Georgia up to $76 million in administrative funding unless it cleared a huge backlog of food stamp applications.

***

Expect Democrats their own legislative response to Gov. Nathan Deal’s call to more narrowly define who can file whistleblower lawsuits.

Senate Minority Leader Steve Henson said he would introduce a proposal to go in the other direction. “The governor’s idea makes absolutely no sense to me,” he said. “Why would we create further restrictions on who is able to bring a case against a state agency that might be breaking our laws?”

***
The laudatory press release Gov. Nathan Deal’s office sent out Tuesday announcing his decision to suspend a scheduled gas tax increase has caused some to note its election-year timing. The governor’s office notes it sent out releases the two other times he’s made a similar decision.

“We are in a process of recovering in this state as we are all across the country,” Deal said when asked about it at a press conference, adding: “I think that an increase in the tax on gasoline would be a deterrent to that continued recovery and I think it would be the wrong timing on it to allow that to happen.”

***
It feels a little like tilting at windmills, but Public Citizen and Common Cause have sent letters to the participants in Georgia’s hottest electoral contests, urging the candidates to take a pledge to reject outside spending by non-party groups in their races.

From the press release:

The pledge is modeled after a similar agreement between then-U.S. Sen. Scott Brown (R-Mass.) and then-candidate Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) in the 2012 Massachusetts U.S. Senate race.

The goals are to reduce the negative and often anonymous attack advertisements by groups not affiliated with the candidate, curb the staggering totals of money being poured into elections and to give people back a voice in our elections.

…It works like this: The candidates in a race who take the pledge agree that if an outside group runs a TV, radio or print advertisement, the candidate benefiting from the ad will donate, from his or her campaign account, half the cost of the ad to a charity of the opposing candidate’s choice.

The recipients of the letters: Republican incumbent Nathan Deal and Democrat Jason Carter in the race for governor; Democratic incumbent John Barrow and Republican Rick Allen in the 12th District congressional race; Democrat Michelle Nunn and Republicans Jack Kingston and David Perdue in the U.S. Senate race.

152 comments
BigHat
BigHat

As they now know in Seattle, the best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a can of pepper spray.  RIGHT!

notagain
notagain

Stopping medicaid and assistance would only give the elected a bigger pool from which to siphon.I can see TD now with a gun on each hip,and a bandolier across each shoulder.

notagain
notagain

when you put a gun in every hand,could be a bad time to stop no knocks

findog
findog

What is lacking in the gas tax coverage is how much are we talking about

Fifteen percent increase is what: 2-3 cents a gallon

Should the governor ever make himself available for a wide ranging interview I hope the reporter asks him, "what are you cutting to make up for those funds GDOT has lost?

RoadScholar
RoadScholar

Jim, No article on the passing of ex-legislator, ex-GDOT Commissioner Tom Coleman? He was a good man with a good head on his shoulders. I worked with/for him and he always trusted his staff. A very good listener, and then he acted!  May he rest in peace.

RoadScholar
RoadScholar

“I think that an increase in the tax on gasoline would be a deterrent to that continued recovery and I think it would be the wrong timing on it to allow that to happen.”

So we want crumbling infrastructure and reduced mobility? What about the jobs that would ensue based on increased infrastructure spending? Deal fiddles as Georgia's potholes grow!

notagain
notagain

Good idea.now if we can stop the repugs from voting the dead.

Ficklefan
Ficklefan

Just re-name all city, county, local government buildings "The Gold Dome." Or, names to that effect. The legislators who brought you this ridiculous and unnecessary law were very careful to make sure it did not apply to where they to work. If it is not a good law that they can live under, then it is not good for anyone in Georgia. I marvel at how such blatant and naked hypocrisy can be so easily dismissed, over looked, or not even understood by these genius law makers. BTW. I am a strong Second Amendment advocate and NRA member, and a Republican, but one getting tired of the crazy, hypocrite, gun lovers being in charge. 

PSWallace
PSWallace

"and certainly they feel as bad as the rest of us feel when you have a tragedy like this occur"

Sure, but the 'tude I distinctly received from the Sherriff is that a few infants with faces blown open in no-knock raids is just the price you pay to have an efficient police force.

 I.e., nothing, policy-wise will change, at least not by Habersham's folks.

CuriousPrime
CuriousPrime

Knock..Knock!  Who's There? Good Guys with Guns! CRAP said a 92-year old and a 19-month old.

CuriousPrime
CuriousPrime

1. Can someone explain why conservatives waste so much time arguing about releasing tax returns, because the real juicy stuff is found on a balance sheet that you will never see?  

2. GA has a HUGE backlog of food stamp applications?  I bet you won't see that on a Deal campaign ad.

3. It is safer to go to Phillips Arena than to Norcross City Hall?  Now that's funny.

4. So the Republican party chairman is concerned that not enough voters are familiar with the GOP candidates for state school superintendent?  What difference does it make if neither care about public education?

5. Phil Gingrey says that "Not one of his people pushed him toward businessman" Perdue? One could say that Dr. Phil hasn't made an independent decision while in Congress because his people didn't pushed him.

lvg
lvg

To raise revenue the Goivernor is selling Circus tickets at $25 a head for the next session of the General Assemby and calling in Barnham and Bailey  to act as consultants. NRA is providing a ringmaster for free.

CuriousPrime
CuriousPrime

Can someone explain why 90% of the victims of gun violence are of the same race as the perpetrator, but nearly 95% of the news and targeted ads insinuate that only minorities are predators?  True, the murder rate among Blacks is higher per capita with a total of about 3,500; however, the facts show that of the 16,000 killings annually in the US, about 12,000 are white-on-white.


Data shows when it comes to violent crimes, especially when it comes to assault, battery, rape, and robbery, Europid females should be really afraid of Europid males over the age of 21, especially those that they know.  We will not go into the long history of actions associated with Europid males' insecurities, bias, and not being held responsible for their own actions.





EdUktr
EdUktr

A comment apparently TOO HOT for the Get Schooled blog (Parental Discretion Advised):


"In a recent Get Schooled column I commented on the ennui of a back and forth between blog feminists with a simple ... 'Zzzzzzz ...'

Which was taken down as a violation of the user agreement. Ah, well. The AJC is what it is."



cosperm1
cosperm1

I have sat down with my local House Rep and have gone over this Bill/Law whatever you want to call it, bottom line its a private rights Bill/Law that is not being presented to us thoroughly, properly and has flaws, I am gun owner own a bar and the only people that are allowed in my bar with a gun are myself and any employees with a permit after we are closed and cleaning up PERIOD! My private right is to either allow guns or not, I am not, it will be posted, our patrons favor this as well, guns and alcohol don't mix, it is illegal to discharge a firearm under the influence of alcohol or drugs, get with your local rep and dissect the law, a lot of bar owners feel the same way, if you drink please take a cab, if you drink leave your gun at home, by law you cant use either one if you drink.....    

LEcho
LEcho

“But I would point out on the good side of the news that we have in the food stamp arena is that now we have eliminated the backlog and we are very pleased with that so that people who are eligible to receive those benefits can receive them in a timely fashion.”


Between the food stamp fiasco, the Savannah drudging vs Medicare expansion and guns everywhere law...oh yeah and the desire for more strict guidelines on whistleblowers, the governor is so full of it. Do your job right and stop being stooped. But I guess you can't fix that.

SergeantRock
SergeantRock

So help me understand this.  For the past 24 years since Norcross was chartered as a city, every criminal in Georgia could walk-in City Hall, illegal and unchecked.  Now that LEGAL GWCL holders, less than 4% of the states population, are allowed to LEGALLY enter the building, the City of Norcross is all of a sudden concerned?


Where was the concern when illegal gun carriers were in the building over the past 24 years?


GWCL holders, less than 4% of the states population have been vetted more so than Law Enforcement Officers, Judges and elected officials.  GWCL holders have had extensive GCIC & NCIC criminal checks, psychological background checks, free of substance abuse and domestic violence, fingerprint checks and affirmed by a Judge that he/she meets the high standards required to carry.  GWCL holders have less criminal activities than most Law Enforcement Officers, Judges and elected officials.



Perhaps Mayor Bucky Johnson and the entire City Council would be kind enough to publicly release THEIR State and Federal criminal record, release THEIR psychological background check, release THEIR substance abuse record, release THEIR domestic violence record and release THEIR finger prints.  Somehow I don't think Mayor Johnson and council members won't do that.

DS
DS

Deal noted that it was the third time he’s been faced with the decision since taking office. Two other instances, he said, he allowed the increase to go forward. “We are in a process of recovering in this state ...and I think it would be the wrong timing on it to allow that to happen.”

That doesn't make sense. The Great Recession started in 2007-2008, and we've been slowly recovering since. So Deal is saying it was okay to allow the gas tax increase when the economy was worse, but not now. Does anybody really believe this?

If I follow the math reported in other articles, the gas tax increase would have been about $0.044/gallon. Assuming the average motorist drives 12000 miles per year and cars average 20 mpg, the gas tax increase would cost the average driver about $2.20 per month.

So Nathan Deal believes that Georgia's fragile economic recovery would be derailed by asking drivers to spend $2.20 more per month?

Meanwhile, our roads and bridges need to be maintained, doing the necessary maintenance would help our job market, and businesses would prefer to move to a state with good infrastructure.

Time and time again, Nathan Deal uses arguments that just don't make any sense.

Alberta
Alberta

Isn't it funny how conservatives concerns about "undermining the US Constitution" starts and stops with the 2nd amendment? 

GREYGHOST
GREYGHOST

Local angst over Georgia’s new concealed-carry law bubbles up.

This quandry is faced by other groups.

Should I stay in the coat closet or out myself on my hip.

td1234
td1234

Said article is further amended by adding two new Code sections to read as follows:

780 "16-11-137.

781 (a) Every license holder shall have his or her valid weapons carry license in his or her

782 immediate possession at all times when carrying a weapon, or if such person is exempt14 HB 60/AP

H. B. 60

- 23 -

783 from having a weapons carry license pursuant to Code Section 16-11-130 or subsection (c)

784 of Code Section 16-11-127.1, he or she shall have proof of his or her exemption in his or

785 her immediate possession at all times when carrying a weapon, and his or her failure to do

786 so shall be prima-facie evidence of a violation of the applicable provision of Code Sections

787 16-11-126 through 16-11-127.2.

788 (b) A person carrying a weapon shall not be subject to detention for the sole purpose of

789 investigating whether such person has a weapons carry license.

790 (c) A person convicted of a violation of this Code section shall be fined not more than

791 $10.00 if he or she produces in court his or her weapons carry license, provided that it was

792 valid at the time of his or her arrest, or produces proof of his or her exemption.


http://www.legis.ga.gov/Legislation/20132014/144825.pdf

td1234
td1234

@RoadScholar  If we stopped Medicaid spending and allowed people to be responsible for purchasing their own insurance then we would have plenty of money to spend on all our infrastructure. 

RoadScholar
RoadScholar

@CuriousPrime How about the delay in getting liquor licenses? I know of 3 new restaurants that have had to delay opening or opening w/o their liquor licenses. Lost revenue ....that could pay for more staffing!

Kamchak
Kamchak

@EdUktr 

The AJC is what it is.

Tautology is saying the same thing only using different words.

Stuffy
Stuffy

@cosperm1 I believe the guy who shot the policeman in the back 5 times last week was drunk.

td1234
td1234

@cosperm1 It is your right as a property owner to not allow guns in your business and I support that right. On the other hand as a person with a carry permit, if I walk to your door and see the sign that no guns are allowed then I will not enter your establishment and will go to a place that will allow me to carry on the premisses. 

cc423
cc423

@cosperm1 THANK YOU for saying this. And it's not just fights, a drunk mishandling a gun is just as dangerous as a mad drunk with a gun. We don't let people drive drunk, so why are we allowing them to carry weapons while they drink it makes no sense.

honested
honested

@SergeantRock 

Or they could stick to common sense, and make it clear guns are not necessary to carry out City related business.

MoFaux
MoFaux

@DS Let's hope Carter takes charge and attacks him on his lack of leadership on the issue of Transportation...and THEN follow through when he's elected.

honested
honested

@DS 

I guess it makes sense to those with 'dog whistle hearing' who are only able interpret adequate revenue as BAD.

Of course, the job of a leader is to do what is necessary and explain to the hard-headed dolts why.

cc423
cc423

@td1234 "A person carrying a weapon shall not be subject to detention for the sole purpose of

789 investigating whether such person has a weapons carry license."

If I drive through a police roadblock to show proof of insurance and a valid license.Why should you not have to prove you own that gun and it is not stolen? And I notice there is no provision saying it is illegal to drink and pack heat. That is a recipe for disaster. I am all for gun ownership, but let's not confuse no rules with good rules.

DS
DS

@td1234 The Georgia DOT revenue sources are mostly Federal funds (about 60%) and the fuel tax (about 40%). Only a small fraction comes from other general fund sources (although the fuel tax is deposited into the general fund then sent to the DOT to pay for projects).

So cutting Medicaid wouldn't help pay for roads and bridges. In fact, if Georgia stopped its Medicaid contribution, we'd lose Federal funds for that program, which would contract our economy and be a severed hardship for current Medicaid recipients. We still wouldn't have better roads and bridges---if anything, it would get worse.

We've been warned for years that the fuel tax won't be adequate to maintain roads and bridges because cars have become more fuel efficient. Road usage is going up and fuel tax receipts aren't keeping up.

The fuel tax inflation adjustment is supposed to help offset this a bit. Now Deal has cancelled that because we're in an election year. He's crippling maintenance of Georgia's roads and bridges so he can get reelected.

honested
honested

@td1234 @RoadScholar 

You have such an odd definition of 'responsibility'.

It seems to always refer to those with nothing to give but always seems to exclude 'oblige' from those with the most to lose.

Or maybe responsibility for the horrible decisions of a person entrusted with political leadership ant the terrible results of those decisions.

Responsibility has many faces.

BuckheadBoy
BuckheadBoy

@td1234 @RoadScholar Just returned on the redeye from Frisco. Thanks for reminding me to reset my watch to the 14th Century. Oh, I see that today is the day that the Bring-Out-Your-Dead cart comes by. Got a couple of serfs and a knight down on his luck to throw-in this week.

RoadScholar
RoadScholar

@td1234 @RoadScholar Yeah we could line up the cadavers and pave over them!  But that might provide a bumpy ride!

Funny that there is plenty of money for big business tax breaks (corporate welfare) but not enough to care for our citizens or infrastructure! One of the posts figured the gas tax increase would amount to $2 a month per household based on the assumptions they made.


Oh the horror!

hobbit57
hobbit57

@td1234 @RoadScholar  Yep all those 90 year old Alzehimer's suffering nursing home residents will be lined up for part time jobs and out shopping for insurance.  OH! and by the way I take it you are an advocate for the ACA since it requires people to carry insurance?

Ralph-43
Ralph-43

@td1234 Thank you for obeying the law.  May all the gun nuts congregate in one place for a major shoot out.  Have a blast.  We Americans will enjoy our peace and prosperity.

SergeantRock
SergeantRock

@honested @SergeantRock Your opinion or the City of Norcross' opinion have no bearing on a GWCL holder's right to carry as prescribed by law.  Should their opinion take on policy or official action contrary to law, I am sure the court will resolve in accordance with the O.C.G.A.

td1234
td1234

@Rusdawg @td1234 Because the progressive on this blog do not appear to know exactly what the new law says. Educational purposes. 

RoadScholar
RoadScholar

@DS The Fed gas tax begins deficit spending this fall in addition to our state gas tax not covering our needs. How will Deal pay for the newly promised SR 400/ I 285 interchange? Bake sale? More tolls?Let all contribute instead of Lexus Lanes!

honested
honested

@BuckheadBoy @td1234 @RoadScholar 

Yep.

We in Georgia would NEVER want to live in a situation where we can pretty much go from one end of the state to the other and never have to get in a car!

Nobody_Knows
Nobody_Knows

@honested @td1234 @cosperm1 

He says he doesn't drink alcohol so his coke and order of wings wouldn't exactly be making or breaking the bank.......

I'd laugh as he walked to his car thinking he had done something big.

td1234
td1234

@Ralph-43 @td1234 Yes and only people not legally eligible to carry weapons will be the only ones in those bars with guns like they have always been. 

honested
honested

@SergeantRock @honested 

I would hope the State Supreme Court rules in favor of the Citizens, not the slimy ground dwellers in georgia carry.

Baumer_1
Baumer_1

@td1234


Neither do the conservatives, neither does the legislature, neither does the governor.


They should pass a quick bill repealing both and start over again.

CherokeeCounty
CherokeeCounty

Odd, td, since it proves the exact opposite of your comments below.

What do you think lines 788 and 789 mean?

DS
DS

@RoadScholar, excellent question, and a great example of why canceling the fuel tax inflation adjustment makes no sense.

CherokeeCounty
CherokeeCounty

honestly td, I expect you handle your weapon safely.

But have you seen the pics of the yahoos in Texas who insist on carrying their popguns into Chilis?

Your chances of getting injured or killed by one of those idiots doing something stupid is far greater than getting injured or killed by a perp with the intent to rob the place.

So yeah, you go hang out with your fellow gun nuts, and leave the rest of us alone.  And I'll go to cosperm1's place and have a few Long Island Ice Teas; you can go to your gun lovin' honky tonk and enjoy your coke and wings.

honested
honested

@Baumer_1 

Just rename it 'Obamacare' and they'll move so quickly they hurt themselves.

td1234
td1234

@CherokeeCounty It means the police can not lock you up for the sole purpose of going into the database to check your permit. 782 and 783 is very clear.


792 is pretty clear also about the consequences of not having the carry permit. What do you think will happen to the people carrying that can not prove later that they had a valid permit in front of the judge? 

Rusdawg
Rusdawg

@td1234 @CherokeeCounty Everyone is wrong in a way


(1) Police can ASK to see TD's license

(2) TD is under NO OBLIGATION to show his license (or say that he doesn't have one)

(3) Police cannot DETAIN TD for the sole purpose of checking his license

(4) Detain does not mean "lock you up" it mean "stop from moving freely"

td1234
td1234

@Rusdawg And it appears police can give you a "arrest and release" summons to appear before a judge to prove you have the right to carry. 

Baumer_1
Baumer_1

@Rusdawg


That is what I thought too, but I am unaware of existing laws that may or may not require the civilian party to present the permit upon request.


Rusdawg
Rusdawg

@td1234 @Rusdawg Also....police have to have "probable cause" to arrest someone....if they have probable cause then they can detain....so I am really missing your latest point.

CherokeeCounty
CherokeeCounty

What rusdawg said, td.  "detain" doesn't mean lock you up - it means stop you and question you.

td1234
td1234

@Rusdawg @td1234 That is the whole point of the provision in the law. Carrying a weapon in and by itself does not constitute probable cause to detain you. 

td1234
td1234

@Rusdawg @td1234 If you have ever gotten a speeding ticket the read the bottom of it. You were technically attested for the moving violation and then released by your signature to appear in court on the charges. 


It is my understanding that this will be the same type procedure for people without their carry permits. 

Baumer_1
Baumer_1

@Rusdawg @Baumer_1


So in other words, anyone can carry and basically get away with it.


If I were a violent offender, recently released, I could be illegally in possession of a firearm, carry it publicly, and if a cop asks to see my permit I can say no then make myself scarce when they go back to the squad car to look me up.

Rusdawg
Rusdawg

@td1234 @Rusdawg Agreed. That is the whole point of that provision. (Actually, I think carrying it does not provide reasonable suspicion to detain...which is an even lower standard)

Rusdawg
Rusdawg

@td1234 @Rusdawg Ok, right. I mean you and I are agreeing on the basic premise. The point I think the others are making is that there is no way for an officer to get to the probable cause to issue such "arrest and release" summons. The officer cannot even get to "reasonable suspicion" which is the point of that provision. 


I think the other folks here are pointing out that the provision makes it impossible to tell who is a "good guy with a gun" and who is a "bad guy with a gun"