Posted: 6:30 pm Saturday, May 3rd, 2014

An exit visa out of Bumper Sticker Land, perhaps past Obamacare 

By Jim Galloway

Originality is the exact opposite of politics, where the essential purpose is to merge with the largest herd possible.

In poll-tested campaigns, innovation is relegated to the more superficial elements. And so we have TV ads that feature crying babies, old station wagons, and booming cannons.

Which means that when a truly unique bit of substance surfaces — unsuitable for any bumper sticker smaller than a billboard, incapable of being compressed into a 10-second sound bite — it is worth some attention. Regardless of the source.

Gardner

Art Gardner, Atlanta patent attorney and Republican candidate for U.S. Senate. AJC file

Art Gardner, an Atlanta patent attorney, is conducting a quixotic, underfunded Republican campaign for U.S. Senate. His decision to position himself as a “socially tolerant” conservative, who says gay marriage is an inevitable fact, should give you a measure of his chances.

But Gardner has a proposal for lowering health costs in the United States that may deserve to survive the May 20 primary, even if he doesn’t.

Better yet, while Gardner is on record as being opposed to the Affordable Care Act, his idea has nothing to do with Obamacare. It might, in fact, take some of the starch out of that never-ending debate.

But again, this requires us to venture beyond Bumper Sticker Land. “It takes me three or four minutes to describe it to a room,” Gardner said. “They’re all over it then.”

Let’s start with one of the prescriptions pressed on Gardner – and perhaps you — by a doctor. Crestor is a drug designed to reduce cholesterol, and costs $7.50 a tablet in the United States – maybe $6.50 if you have decent insurance.

In Canada, the same tablet can be had for $1.78. In the rest of the developed world, the price varies, but is usually under $2.

Americans pay more for health care than anyone else in the world, and disparity in drug pricing is one of the reasons why.

Gardner, who has a rather wide libertarian streak in him, emphasizes that this has nothing to do with the invisible hand of the market. There is no such thing when it comes to patented medicine – not in Canada, not in Europe, and not in the United States.

”The idea behind a patent is there’s not a free market. We’re giving you the opposite of a free market to reward you for the substantial investment required to develop a new drug,” said Gardner, who has been involved in intellectual property law for the last quarter century.

In other countries, drug companies are able to maintain their competition-free arenas granted by patents, but government regulates the prices they can charge.

No so here. “We in this country abhor price controls. We like a free market. Our society doesn’t want any sort of government interference. We’re taking a hands-off approach,” Gardner said.

And so? “The drug companies can’t charge what they need in the other countries. Take Crestor. They probably need $3 per tablet to make a good profit worldwide. But since they can only get $1.78 in Canada, and similar prices in the other G-7 countries, they’ve got to charge a lot more than $3 in the U.S. to make up for it,” Gardner said.

So Americans are subsidizing artificially low prices throughout the civilized world. The cost of prescriptions drugs is so low in Canada – and elsewhere — precisely because you’re paying more here

“Intellectually, I can rationalize and justify why we should pay a lot more for medicine than Africans who are living on 50 cents a day,” Gardner said. “But the Germans? It’s absolutely crazy that we should pay a lot more so they can pay a lot less.”

Gardner’s solution isn’t the stuff that normally sets a U.S. Senate race on fire. He wants Congress to make a change in U.S. patent law, so that a drug company’s 20-year lock on its unique product could be challenged if its U.S. price is 25 percent higher than elsewhere in the G-7. And the patent could be lost if the U.S. price were 50 percent higher.

The patent attorney said this would force drug companies to negotiate higher prices abroad. “They will be forced to go to those other countries and say, ‘We can’t screw the Americans anymore,’” he said.

Gardner said his idea wouldn’t neutralize the Obamacare issue, but it might lower the temperature of the argument. “The overarching problem with health care is not how you administer the insurance,” he said. “It’s how much it costs. If you could lower the cost of health care in total in America, we could figure out a way to pay for it that people would like.”

Should Gardner fall on the third Tuesday in May, he’s hoping that a surviving Republican will pick up his baton on drug pricing. But he also thinks it might have some bipartisan allure.

Branko Radulovacki, an Atlanta psychiatrist and Democratic candidate for U.S. Senate, met Gardner at a forum this spring, where the patent attorney had made his pitch.

“Dr. Rad” wasn’t ready to endorse it, but didn’t scoff, either. “It’s a creative idea. It’s worth further consideration. I can applaud him for thinking of a different approach,” said Radulovacki, who writes many a prescription himself.

Now if only Gardner could find a way to get Michelle Nunn’s ear….

109 comments
tdl234
tdl234

Wait a minute, wait one cotton picking minute people. Pay no attention to this claptrap below. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!  How dare you insult the Great Oz! The Great and Terrible Wizard of Oz! I am busy with 6th dimension issues of extreme significance! Issues beyond your feeble comprehension. Internal organs and transportation to squalid rural counties are trivial matters to the Great and Magnificent Wizard of Oz! Go away and come back in four weeks! After the Primaries. 


Eyes on the prize people. Eyes on the prize. Obamacare is evil incarnate. It will take your soul. It is of the Devil. We have no working solutions to offer so we have to demonize this travesty or good upstanding conservatives won't be re-elected. Never mind that we have done everything possible to knock the pins out from under it. Never mind that we are the ONLY industrialized nation in the world without universal healthcare. We have to carry this mid-term election so that we can keep government dysfunctional for 2 more years and still be able to use Demon Obamacare against Hillary! 


I don't care if a good God fearing Conservative is running for dog catcher they better be running against Obamacare. It is all we have besides Guns Everywhere! Obamacare is Amerika's suicide pact. Repeal Obamacare! Remember Luke...no, not that one, dang it, Skywalker!  Demonizing Obamacare is our only Hope!



DewieCheatem_n_Howe
DewieCheatem_n_Howe

OK, first to the subject at hand; drug patents and medical device patents. Forget about Crestor's piddly $7.50 or whatever it is about to, if not already coming off of patent anyway. Lets look at sofosbuvir, marketed as Sovaldi at $1,000.00 per pill for Hepatitis C patients. Average treatment regimen $84K to $200K per patient times 4 million patients in the US. We ain't talking chump change anymore people. Gilead Sciences bought the company that developed it for $11 Billion so we will use that as their cost for R&D.  The estimate by Forbes is a revenue stream of $269 Billion over its patent lifespan for a ROI of 2500%. Some of my posts here with links keep getting whacked so google Forbes America's Broken Health Care System. 


There is one absolute certainty here people. Even if the numbers are only half of that. On that one drug alone there is the possibility of hundreds of millions if not billions to buy every lawmaker that is for sale and it is highly likely to be everyone of them on both sides, don't fool yourself. When you are talking this kind of money you simply do like the Chinese did a couple of decades ago, buy everybody. Apparently on the Keystone pipeline they missed someone in recent years. As the full-time spokesperson for the conservative-right-of-Atilla-the-Hun groups, td1234 has informed us we have a representative form of government.  Those representatives are apparently representing their constituents well according to him in keeping us in this debacle. Believe or not I agree with him! But their true constituents are not sheeple like him or you. Their true constituents are PACs, Super PACs, and their corporate puppet masters. Until something is done in the court system to stabilize the price of congressmen there will be no price stabilization in the Health Care Industry.

consumedconsumer
consumedconsumer

Nice idea. The company could also cut management pay to stop screwing everyone, but hey this is America and we know that ain't gonna happen.

Ralph-43
Ralph-43

Yes - Gardner is right - competitive bidding would have been a useful concept for the Part D Prescription program passed under George Bush - But - all of these complicated proposals, including the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act of 2010, dance around the obvious.  The obvious is pointed out here - a brand name drug, Crestor, costs $7.50 per pill in the U.S. and $1.78 in Canada.  It also costs under $2 in every other developed country in the world.  Yes - that's right - they all advanced to a single payer system long ago while the U.S. clung tightly to its enormously expensive, inefficient, and unsafe program.  Why - $billions from those $7.50 pills and 50 percent profit margin health insurance companies legally (according to the U.S. Supreme Court) pumped into the pockets of small time U.S. Congress people who agreed to vote for the benefit of the drug pushers and NOT for the benefit of their constituents.   

SouthGeorgiareader
SouthGeorgiareader

I've already voted for Gardner.  We need a different approach to solving problems, and this is one that could work for drug costs.  I'm betting he's got more solutions for more of our troubles. Go Art!

Joeleejohnson
Joeleejohnson

My drug of choice is available at the local package store. But toward the end of each month I am forced (By Ga. code) to abstain. Here in Georgia the sale of alcoholic beverages on credit is prohibited by law.

If Dr. Rad, Col. Gardner, et al want a real fix for Healthcare--Simply apply the same sale on credit law to all Doctors & all drug stores.

NWGAL
NWGAL

Pharmaceutical companies should make a profit. We all want them to improve and discover drugs. But there is a difference between profit and profiteering.

At least pharmaceutical companies actually do produce something of value. I have yet to figure out any positive rationale for health insurance companies to exist except to make a profit for share holders and top execs.

BuckheadBoy
BuckheadBoy

If you correct his premise from "drug companies can't charge what they need in other countries" to "drug companies can't charge what they want in other countries", his argument is reduced to the usual Republican shill game of "don't tax you, don't tax me, tax the man behind the tree". For the drug companies don't seem to "need" to charge the VA and private insurers here, which can negotiate prices with them, what they charge Medicare, which can't. So, let's concentrate first on mitigating "drug companies can charge what they want here", while continuing to afford them the patent protection that they need for research and development.

CherokeeCounty
CherokeeCounty

Now get rid of the subsidies and do away with Medicaid totally and we could have a good health insurance industry.

The little secret that you refuse to admit, td, along with your fellow teaklanners, is that the health insurance industry depends on subsidies already.  Your employer gets a subsidy for providing you with insurance, and you pay for it with pre tax dollars - meaning that those folks who could be benefitting from Medicaid expansion - the working poor folks in GA - are subsidizing you and me.

But I guess they made poor choices, right?

NOlongerRepublican
NOlongerRepublican

This is something I haven't seen in years in Georgia...a Republican that actually THINKS! What a concept! When I was voting Republican there were politicians that acted like this on the right. But now it is all about how crazy you can be. Solutions and ideas don't matter any more to Republicans, just how far right they can go to get the wingnut crowd and be anti Obama. Mr. Gardner wont stand a chance with Georgia Republicans.

CuriousPrime
CuriousPrime

Obama has long said the ACA addressed the payment system, and had the GOP not fought their own "Public Option," the next step would have been to addressing the illogical cost structure in healthcare delivery.  But Noooo, the GOP spent 54 votes trying to repeal their own portion of the plan.

tdl234
tdl234

Getting rid of all subsidies and Medicaid will definitely thin the herd people. GET WITH THE PROGRAM!! Private sector funded exchanges that only accept healthy people and only those who can pay the fare is the only way this can work. To please the poor and sick people we should introduce the plan thought of by the progressive writer Kurt Vonnegut and open suicide parlors in the poorer quarters. That ought to please you lefties. We will even staff them with pretty young things of both sexes so that once you've decided to sign up for the plan you can come and go at the same time. Now tell me good conservatives don't have any compassion.

td1234
td1234

The exchanges with Obamacare is the only thing that makes good sense and is an easy place for the people to come and buy insurance. Now the private sector should have paid for and built the exchange. 


Now get rid of the subsidies and do away with Medicaid totally and we could have a good health insurance industry. 

MaryElizabethSings
MaryElizabethSings

@SouthGeorgiareader


Generally, I agree with your positions, but in this case I did not. 


Please try to convince your south Georgia (where I grew up) friends and relatives to vote for a Democratic governor and for Democratic legislators to Georgia's General Assembly so that this state can expand Medicaid as a part of the ACA, receive federal monies back to Georgia, save lives, jobs, and hospitals in south Georgia, as well as throughout the state.  Word of mouth goes a long way.

DS
DS

@NWGAL. It's just an historical accident, with unintended consequences. During WWII, we had wage controls to prevent runaway wage inflation during a severe shortage of workers. But the government ruled that fringe benefits, like employer-sponsored health insurance, didn't count, so most companies started offering it to compete for workers they desperately needed.

The health insurance companies started earning huge profits and hired skilled lobbyists. Harry Truman advocated single-payer in 1945, but it didn't stand a chance against health insurance lobbyists. So here we are.

honested
honested

@NWGAL  

The 'profit' that is 'earned' by pharmaceutical companies should be reflective of economic reality rather than a self-assumed entitlement to replicate the last blockbuster.

The level of publicly finance research must be reflected in the value to the public of the eventually derived products.

What is currently allowed in terms of 'marketing expenses' for pharmaceuticals is obscene and should not be borne by the public in any way.

While most other mature industries are able to subsist on less than 15% 'profit', it would seem well past time for the pharmaceutical industry to face reality.

MaryElizabethSings
MaryElizabethSings

@NWGAL


Let me give you an analogy, NWGAL, even though I essentially agree with you.  Let's replace "pharmaceutical companies" with "education."  Then, your sentence would read: "Education should make a profit.  We all want education to improve and discover new ways of reaching students."  I do not support public education turned to education for profit.


I gave 100% in my job as an educational leader, even though my salary did not increase as a result of my efforts.  I had a commitment to see excellence in public education and within each student in my schools.  I believe when this world has evolved to a more giving spirit, not necessarily connected to monetary gain, that excellence will occur simply because of care.

td1234
td1234

@CherokeeCounty  The employer does not receive a subsidy. They receive a tax break for doing all the paperwork from the government. 



td1234
td1234

@tdl234  I see my secret admirer is back in full swing but brother I do not swing that way so although I am flattered you will not be getting any favors for worshipping the ground I walk on. 

DewieCheatem_n_Howe
DewieCheatem_n_Howe

@td1234  

Now get rid of the subsidies and do away with Medicaid totally and we could have a good health insurance industry. 


Now, correct me if I'm wrong here, and I know you will even if I'm right.  But shouldn't the ultimate goal be a good healthy populace?  You have claimed to be a Christian on here multiple times. Are you telling me that human health is less important to you than the health of the bottom line of an industry? For the poor and downtrodden to die in order to make it more difficult for a few executives and stockholders to pass through the eye of a needle?

honested
honested

@td1234  

Better yet, get rid of the 'health insurance industry' altogether and put the tremendous savings to ensuring adequate health care coverage for all Americans.

KeepinItSimple
KeepinItSimple

@MaryElizabethSings @SouthGeorgiareader  Federal money is TAX PAYER money.  So you are just saying you want to steal some of the money that other states are stealing.  Poor solution Mary, very poor.  Let's not just fold like the rest of the socialist states of America are doing.  Please move to one of those states if you feel the need to steal.

td1234
td1234

@MaryElizabethSings 


If the National Democratic party was the same Conservative party that it was when you were growing up then you would have a point. Since it is now a socialist party then why would any conservative switch over and support their national agenda?

honested
honested

@DS  

An intermediate step is always available to Congress and only requires a bit of courage....Repeal McCarren-Ferguson of 1945 (The bill that relieved the insurance industry from compliance with anti-trust laws.) It was passed to allow the insurance industry to recover from losses in WWII and should have been sunset by 1950. Instead, it has allowed insurance regulation to become 50 separate fiefdoms preventing efficient Federal regulation.

MaryElizabethSings
MaryElizabethSings

@DS


Thanks for this knowledge, DS, especially about President Harry Truman's advocacy of single-payer in 1945.  I ponder if Truman was moved by Roosevelt's 2nd Bill of Rights for all Americans, presented in his last State of the Union address, just months before he died,  in which Roosevelt stated that all Americans are deserving of medical care, education, decent jobs, and security from poverty in their old age.

NWGAL
NWGAL

MES - if you are suggesting that we should nationalize the pharmaceutical companies, I would almost agree but they aren't all neatly in one country. Not a practical solution. Establishing a fair profit as we do with utilities would be a better solution.

CherokeeCounty
CherokeeCounty

td I don't care what you call it - the employer saves money which encourages them to provide the insurance benefit.

Why are you so butthurt that a Waffle House waitress or Wal Mart employee now can get a similar subsidy from the government?

tdl234
tdl234

@td1234  

Nobody likes me or agrees with me so I had to create a sock puppet to play with myself.  I'm going to go get my signed 8X10 of J.Edgar and tend to that now. 

Just remember schizophrenia means never having to be alone.  

patillo
patillo

@DewieCheatem_n_Howe

Wow, did someone kick your puppy?  People are dying everyday..  And your suggestion is that more people need to die...  I hope you don't lose your job and get sick...  It would be a poor and downtrodden  thing for you to have to rely on the health care system you envision..

Kamchak
Kamchak

@KeepinItSimple

Federal money is TAX PAYER money.

When the money changes hand, it's no longer TAX PAYER money.

Just sayin'.

MaryElizabethSings
MaryElizabethSings

@KeepinItSimple


Using programs provided by our tax dollars is not stealing.  It is quite sad that so many Americans today have been brainwashed to believe that every dime they make is theirs to keep.  Your taxes pay for services you receive every day, like public roads and public schools.  The government is not stealing from you when they tax you.

honested
honested

@KeepinItSimple @DS@td1234 

Apparently you didn't attend any of former Senator mitch seebaugh's sham redistricting hearings in 2011.

Trusting 'conservative media' for news always helps you to ignore the truth.

honested
honested

@KeepinItSimple @honested@td1234@MaryElizabethSings  The 70% number was always bogus and it always included (probably 25%) who wanted the law to go much further and were upset at the capitulation to the insurance industry.

In any case, the level of support for the law AS IT IS hovers at approximately 50% and growing.

td1234
td1234

@DS @td1234  I do not agree with your version of history. The south did not turn legislatively and on a local level until the 80 and 90's so it had little to do with the civil rights movement of the 60's. I was here and growing up in the south when it converted from Democrat to Republican and it had way more to do with Reagan Democrats. 


Yes, the Democrats did try to turn with the Clinton second term after Newt's "renewing American civilization"  and the Democrats lost the house for the first time since FDR.but then turned back towards the big city, union, minority party during GWB and turned even more socialist to elect Obama. They have not looked to moderate since. 

KeepinItSimple
KeepinItSimple

@DS @td1234  It's funny to here LibTards talking about gerrymandering.  They invented the practice and the city and districts of Atlanta are one of the worst in the country .. all brought about to dilute conservative voting power while redistributing middle class tax-payer money to the greedy politicians in Atlanta (note I said to the politicians and not to the people).


Go to a rust belt state and you will see real gerrymandering.  Most of those states would have swung red if not for the ridiculous nonsense perpetuated by the fat cat labor union leaders that are getting rich off the fools that think unions actually help them.

Acidic
Acidic

Zell had a stroke.  We all know it.

KeepinItSimple
KeepinItSimple

@honested @td1234 @MaryElizabethSings  Wrong.  Almost 70% of the nation was against Obamacare.  Slight over 70% was against the big bailout.  Most Americans are against what our politicians are doing as a whole but our system is incredibly corrupt on both sides.

DS
DS

@td1234 I think you need to brush up on history, td. Before the 1990s, the Democratic party was an uneasy alliance of liberal New Dealers and conservative southerners, who had absolutely hated the Republican party ever since the Civil War.

Conservative southerners eventually got over the Civil War and joined the Republican party, largely in reaction to civil rights legislation promoted by Democrats in the 1960s. With the arrival of the conservative southerners, moderate Republicans have been gradually driven out of the party, mostly due to gerrymandered voting districts that favor more conservative candidates.

In the 1990s, Democrats moved to the right in a strategy called triangulation, where they became pro-business and turned down the volume on their liberal rhetoric. Today's Democrats include many moderates, whose policy beliefs resemble those of moderate Republicans in the recent past.

Republicans still like to characterize Democrats as extremely liberal, but that's just to keep Republicans in line and to prevent any consideration of moderate political views.

NWGAL
NWGAL

Re td: Mary Elizabeth, some folks wouldn't recognize a nuance even if it hit them in the face.

Kamchak
Kamchak

@td1234

Since it is now a socialist party...

Lying makes the baby Jesus cry.

Why do you hate the baby Jesus?

Just askin'.

honested
honested

@td1234 @MaryElizabethSings 

So what?

The views of the majority of Americans are reflected in today's Democratic Party. Were it not for crafty gerrymandering, those views would currently be reflected in Congress.

td1234
td1234

@MaryElizabethSings  You can "nuance" all you want Mary but you can not have your own facts. The national Democratic party is way further to the left now than it even was when Bill Clinton was President. To Conservative minded rural folks in the south it does not represent their basic core values. 


"I did not leave the Democratic party it left me" 

Zell Miller

MaryElizabethSings
MaryElizabethSings

@td1234


Td, your post is too full of falsehoods and gross generalities for me to want to give a response.  You do not give Georgians credit for nuanced perceiving, imho.

MaryElizabethSings
MaryElizabethSings

@NWGAL


I am saying that there has been a deliberate trend, forty years in the running, by calculating libertarians of power and wealth to privatize almost every public service function in our society.  Look around at prisons, MARTA, public schools, Georgia's DOT, public state parks, etc.  I am simply standing firm in that not everything we do for society should be based on profit. Thomas Jefferson would not have approved of that. I will let others work out the logistics, as you have done above, well.  That is not my area of expertise. I am simply trying hard to educate the public as to what has been going on stealthily for forty years in politics and to encourage the public to support our "government" public service programs.  What has been done to Unicoi State Park, since it has been privatized, is terrible. State parks are meant to give average Georgians a place of relaxation and communion with nature.  Privatization has another goal - profit.

Kamchak
Kamchak

@td1234

Please re read the part about means tested giveaways.

"means tested" is td's Frank's Hot Sauce.

He puts that sh*t on everything.

td1234
td1234

@honested Please re read the part about means tested giveaways.

honested
honested

@td1234 @honested 

Both concepts exempt the oversight entity (be it individual or corporation) from taxation.

So what's the real difference?

td1234
td1234

@honested There is a huge difference between giving a subsidy (means tested government entitlement) and a tax incentive to a corporation to provide a benefit to all of its employees no matter their economic status where everyone is treated equally and not a slave of the government. 

The-Centrist
The-Centrist

Gotta tell you, you're much better than I am at this.

Well played Sir.

Well played...

honested
honested

@td1234 @Mr_B 

And so is the concept of 'promoting general welfare'.

The Founders would scoff at the lunacy of wrong-wingers attempts to control access to health care through confiscation of wages especially if those wages were used to enrich a class dependent on usury rather than wages.

td1234
td1234

@Mr_B Why? When have I ever said there was not a role for Government? The three categories you listed is within the Constitutionally prescribed scope and role of government. The military is the prime Constitutional function of the Federal Government and police and fire protection is a primary role of state and local government. 


Supporting individuals and making them dependents of the state (except the very old, widowed, orphaned and those that truly can not take care of themselves) is wrong and nothing really better than slavery.  

honested
honested

@td1234 @honested 

Then don't express the entirely false pretense that 'Americans have rejected' a valuable enhancement to Civilization they were never presented.

Let's face reality, the concept of single payer has been kept bottled up by lobbyists for the for-profit health insurance industry. The value of centralized single payer to the Citizens of the United States has never received the open debate it deserves.

td1234
td1234

@honested @td1234  The American people do not cast votes for individual legislation. We live in a representative republic. In 2009 the far left controlled the US house of Reps by more than 50 votes and they could not even get enough votes for a single payer bill because many listened to their constituents. 

td1234
td1234

@honested @td1234  Again that is a government run system which the American people have rejected and that even the Democratic party rejected. 

MaryElizabethSings
MaryElizabethSings

@td1234


Wealth distribution in this nation has only gone in one direction for 40 years, and that is from the lower and middle classes to the top 1%.  Look at the data.

honested
honested

@td1234 @honested 

If the government is simply the intermediary collecting the funds and granting access to individuals requiring healthcare at the most efficient (5%) rate of overhead, there is no 'dependency' nor 'indenture'.

Do you realize just how much of your specious arguments depend on failed wrong-wing mythology?

td1234
td1234

@honested @td1234 


When the government is taking from one person to give to another person then it is not a service and the person receiving it is then dependent on the government and therefore is a slave to the government. 

honested
honested

@td1234 @DewieCheatem_n_Howe 

Word play again.

Allowing the government to provide an efficient service is hardly making anyone a 'slave'.

On the other hand, limiting the availability of that service to dealing with a for profit entity that charges a usurious rate for doing essentially nothing might fit your description.

Mr_B
Mr_B

@EdUktr  The words "single payer" appear nowhere in the USA Today article cited. Hell, I'm not crazy about the ACA, but I think single payer is a complete no-brainer.

(Unless, of course, you're a Republican.)

honested
honested

@td1234 @honested 

The only place that '6 million people were thrown off the private healthcare system' was on talk radio.

Let's limit the discussion to what is really occurring in the United States.

Kamchak
Kamchak

@td1234

... but you can not argue the fact...

I didn't argue any such thing.

Perhaps you should respond to what I actually post rather than the sh*t you just make up and wish I had posted.

Just suggestin'.

td1234
td1234

@honested Yes, the government takes away all other options and throws 6 million people off the private healthcare system and then claims having 8 million sign ups is great. 


What ever happened to the other 30 million without insurance that the bill was created for in the first place? 

td1234
td1234

@Kamchak @td1234  You can argue the Senate and a filibuster proof majority but you can not argue the fact that in the House the Democrats had a huge majority and could not pass a single payer bill. 

honested
honested

@td1234 @honested 

Tiny dog, no reason to fret.

As the ACA continues to work as expected (as opposed to the failed republican response) and more Americans each day can go through life without fearing financial catastrophe from even NORMAL health problems, the wisdom of single payer will become clear to many, just as the ignorance of the teaklan position becomes just as clear.

honested
honested

@td1234 @DannyX 

When was that?

You mean the 3 months after Senator Franken was finally sworn in?

Kamchak
Kamchak

@td1234

 ...when they had the votes to do it.

Lying makes the baby Jesus cry.

Why do you hate the baby Jesus?

Just askin'.

Kamchak
Kamchak

@EdUktr  

Do you ever engage your brain when discussing election or opinion polling results, sport?

What part of 2010 mid-term election seems to be giving you the most trouble, there sport?

First day of that brand new ESL class?

Just askin'.

DannyX
DannyX

@td1234, said "The Democrats could not even get their own party to think single payer when they had the votes to do it."


What does that have to do with me correcting EdUktr's ridiculous response?

tdl234
tdl234

@EdUktr

Oh, and look at that. I forgot which sock puppet was talking on this thread. But at least I get to like your er... my comment this way.  

td1234
td1234

@DannyX Single payer. The Democrats could not even get their own party to think single payer when they had the votes to do it. 

DannyX
DannyX

@EdUktr, where in the world does that poll you linked to say anything about single payer?  

tdl234
tdl234

@EdUktr

Yeah and that 2012 re-election was really affirmation of the voter's rejection as well. Er.. Whoops!!! 

Kamchak
Kamchak

@td1234

  2010 midterm elections. 

How were the 2010 mid-term elections proof that the American people "overwhelmingly rejected single payer"?

Please, be specifically detailed and show your work.

Thanks in advance

Kamchak
Kamchak

@td1234

The American people have overwhelmingly rejected single payer. 

Got proof?