Posted: 10:12 pm Saturday, March 1st, 2014

Episcopal bishops come out against gun bill 

By Jim Galloway

The Episcopal bishops of Atlanta and Georgia, the right Revs. Robert C. Wright of Atlanta and Scott Anson Benhase of Georgia, respectively, have sent out a letter in opposition to HB 875, a measure passed by the House and now in the Senate, which would expand the places where licensed concealed weapons could be carried – including in houses of worship.

The letter terms the bill as a “mistake.” A few paragraphs:

 Supporters of this bill claim our current quite expansive gun laws are not expansive enough. They claim that if only the “bad guys” have guns, then the “good guys” cannot stop them. As one State Representative who sponsored the bill said: “Gun free zones that are created by well-meaning laws are gun-free to the good guys only. The bad part of our society does not care.”

 Our Christian Faith has a more complex understanding of “good guys” and “bad guys.” Our Biblical understanding of human sin informs us of this universal truth. People who had no criminal record and had a legal right to their weapons have perpetrated almost all of the recent tragic shootings in houses of worship and schools. They were “good guys” until they weren’t.

 This bill solves nothing and it only creates the potential for more gun violence, not less, to say nothing of increasing political polarization in Georgia. Our State’s current gun laws are already quite fair to gun owners, adequately protecting their rights. All the citizens of Georgia have rights as well. We have a right to keep guns out of our houses of worship and our schools.

305 comments
IllunZ
IllunZ

The only comment they even make on the bill itself is that they "have a right to keep guns out of our houses of worship and our schools", which this bill still allows - both schools and churches still can refuse to allow weapons on their property. 

USAFDUDE
USAFDUDE

I find it interesting that the validity [or lack thereof] of the anti-gunner's stance on this issue can be directly linked to the juvenile antics, prepubescent insults along with the overall lack of logic and rationality they have displayed here. At the same time, the rationality, logic and lack of insults from the pro-gunner side not only illustrates the validity of their stance, but why this bill is going forward.


...after all, when the anti-gunner's "attacks" include "If you enter a business clearly marked No Firearms Allowed and the person behind the counter notices you are 'carrying' and instructs you to drop the weapon. As you stare into both barrels, what do you do?"  and "my daughter, while over 21 and responsible, is not going to be on the winning end of a physical confrontation with a big man." [that was actually used in an anti-gun argument!], is it any wonder why they are losing?

MiltonMan
MiltonMan

"I agree with you. However, a right-wing dangerous christians would not."

Yes, we need more child-molesting lib catholics in office passing laws.

MiltonMan
MiltonMan

The Episcopal church is still around????  I thought those catholic wannabes cased to exist.  Wishful thinking on my part.

Kamchak
Kamchak

http://www.blueridgenow.com/article/20120219/ARTICLES/120219757

Spartanburg Co. deputy accidentally shoots woman in concealed weapon class

"The wife of a Spartanburg County sheriff's deputy was accidentally shot Saturday during a concealed weapons permit class instructed by another deputy.

The victim, Crystal Smith, was struck with a .22-caliber bullet, Spartanburg Sheriff Chuck Wright said at a news conference.

Deputy Calvin “Skip” Smith was showing another student in the course how to properly grip her gun when it discharged, and Crystal, who was standing beside the other student on the firing line, was shot. Wright said the bullet passed through Crystal's arm and entered her side.

Wright said Smith, a South Carolina Law Enforcement Division certified Concealed Weapons Permit Course instructor, was unaware a round had been chambered into the pistol. He was off duty when the accidental shooting occurred. He and the victim are not related."

SouthGeorgiareader
SouthGeorgiareader

I've told my legislators this bill is a serious mistake, but they are deaf and march to the beat of war drums only.  As if there aren't enough weapons out there, this proposal only encourages more guns in more places.  While schools have been trying to eliminate weapons on campus as state law mandates, here comes a bill that allows weapons---why do we send these looney birds to Atlanta to make our laws?

hamiltonAZ
hamiltonAZ

Guns, gays, and God. 

When are the representatives of the people going to attend to the business of the people - jobs, highways, bridges, water, bricks, mortar and other infrastructure?

It's really time to start vetting these candidates as individuals to see if they want to pander or do our work as our representatives. The labels R & D don't seem to tell us much any more.

mrob
mrob

It is now time to let all Georgians know very well that's the people choice to become dangerous vigilants is to be conservative by voting Republicans.


The today's Republicans party are not the party President Lincoln represented. It's not the Party of Reagan either. It's the party of FRAGMENTED DANGEROUS LEADERS slaved by corporate sponsors and poison donors. 


Red states are dangerous states with lawmakers equally dangerous to enact dangerous laws to drive home a point to exhibit conservatism. 


I rather follow the "white rabbit" than any Republicans. Welcome to "The Matrix" my fellow Georgians, where the criminals and politicians are the best of friends because the innocent and progressive people are now moving targets for the mad and dangerous right-wing christian conservative in need of a dangerous sponsor and a dangerous politician.


Kamchak
Kamchak

For all of those thinking that concealed carry is a defense -- I think it is important to note that James Brady and Ronald Reagan were both shot while in the protection of the best armed and best trained security force on the planet.

NWGAL
NWGAL

We already prohibit guns in government buildings, airports and planes. Those restrictions to some on this site are a criminal reduction of their Second Amendment rights. After all, when do property rights trump personal liberties granted by the Constitution? I own a shotgun. I am not opposed to gun ownership but all rights come with responsibilities and the extremist gun owners want unfettered freedom with no responsibilities. That attitude didn't work when our population was substantially less than it is now. In cities, it is lethal.

AuntieChrist
AuntieChrist

The 3 wise men brought gold, frankinscence, and myrrh, when what Jesus really wanted was a 9mm, high capacity magazine, and concealed carry permit.

Make a joyful noise unto the Lord, like the noise from a 357 magnum.

Just think, if there had been a good guy with a gun--maybe one of those scribes or pharisees--Jesus would have thought twice about throwing those money changers out of church.

The_Centrist
The_Centrist

A couple of hours ago I asked if this legislation will also pass in the Senate and be signed into law by Governor Deal.  Only one response which said it would. 

While some of this debate is certainly going to be done on the Senate floor - anyone else want to predict the outcome instead of repeatedly posting your opinion about it?

mrob
mrob

Could any of you imagine the governor and all of his Republicans cronies sitting in church on a sunny beautiful Sunday morning listening to a good church sermon and a unknown man sit there with a concealed weapon strap to his waist and the little girl sit next to him and happen to see it and warn her dad and say "daddy look'?


Could any of you imagine the governor and all of his cronies hold a press conference about carrying a concealed weapon at a local university and in the background you hear gunshots because a students just confronted another students because he failed to pay him back of a book loan?


Could any of you imagine, having dinner with your family at a local restaurant patio and a fight breakout and guns are drawn and people running all over the place for safety.


Do we here in Georgia really are ready to witness the possible danger of what other nations are already seeing within their community with the potential of bad people carrying concealed weapons?


Look what happen in the movie theater as the guy was using his cellphone before the movie started? Did we know the good guy to have a "UGLY EGO"?  No, but if you asked his former cops friends, he was a good retired officer that turned bad.


Many of you think Georgia is red, It may be more red after this stupid law because of the possible bloodshed.

AuntieChrist
AuntieChrist

I "might" get attacked in church, students "might" get shot on campus, I "might" get sued by a homer sexual, someone "might" vote who isn't supposed to, and undocumented aliens "might" get food stamps, so these morons spend an entire session passing laws for problems that don't even exist. But, as to solutions for traffic gridlock, people dying from lack of healthcare, failing schools, and a host of other real problems, it's "What, me worry?"

MikePoss
MikePoss

@SouthGeorgiareader You do understand that guns are allowed on campus now. Do you know anything about current law?  Have you read HB875 or are you simply repeating lies told by the media and anti gun organizations?

mrob
mrob

@SouthGeorgiareader  


The answer is, there is not enough police on the streets. So lets allow all vigilants to rule the streets under the "Stand Your Ground Law Part II" in a dangerous govern red state such as, Georgia.


Red states are dangerous states with lawmakers equally dangerous to enact dangerous laws to drive home a point to exhibit conservatism. 

MaryElizabethSings
MaryElizabethSings

@hamiltonAZ


However, remember that there is still a huge difference in the present Democratic Party and the present Republican Party in Georgia.  Vote Democratic and bring sanity back to our legislature.

mrob
mrob

@hamiltonAZ  


I agree with you. However, a right-wing dangerous christians would not. 

P-Evans
P-Evans

@Kamchak. Well then, they should not have been armed, right? This one case proves that guns cannot be used to protect someone. That is your silly non sequitur argument, isn't it?


Guns did not shield the president, but his armed security did. Just because a gun cannot do all the work by itself does not rule it out as an effective self-defense tool.

I didn't have an armed escort with me, but me and my gun kept me from being assaulted years ago, with no shots being fired. And it wasn't in the news. Success like this happens every single day in this country, with most of it never being in the news. Sheep like you therefore assume it doesn't happen.

BlueWorld
BlueWorld

@Kamchak  

And it's important to note that direct action by armed personnel stopped the threat.

BlueWorld
BlueWorld

@Kamchak  

So explain to us how they would have been safer if the secret service were carrying 'No Gun Zone' signs instead.

Kamchak
Kamchak

When Jesus stated, "Blessed are the peacemakers" he was referring to Samuel Colt's .45.

AuntieChrist
AuntieChrist

@The_CentristA couple of hours ago I asked if this legislation will also pass in the Senate...... Only one response which said it would. 


In other words, as usual, most people ignored your comment.  That happens when you just post the same nonsense every day about the "librul media."  Come back when you have something worthwhile to say.

glockowner
glockowner

@mrob there you go saying the skys falling, same bs was said when hb 89 passed.not happen yet , we can carry in any resteraunt we want (but if they ask you to remove weapon) you must or face tresspass.

why its pvt property and they have rights, why shouldnt places of worship have same rights?

MaryElizabethSings
MaryElizabethSings

@mrob


When my child was very young, I asked our Episcopalian priest to consider having separate tiny "cups" from which each parishioner could take Communion because I was worried that my child might get germs from others which could be detrimental to one's health.  The older priest told me, rightly, that the common cup was representative of the Communion of the Last Supper when the disciples drank from a common cup in spiritual unity with Christ.  He said that that liturgy would remain as it was and that I would simply have to accept that.  My husband, my child, and myself continued to sip from the common cup, with all the other parishioners, each Sunday that we attended church. 


Disease is a risk, and so is getting shot by someone, in a church.  Nevertheless, the liturgy of communion using a common cup should remain as it is because drinking from one cup builds community and spiritual communion among Christians.  Guns have no place in churches, whatever the risk.  They represent the antithesis of what Jesus had taught, i.e., they foster feelings of fear and violence instead of feelings of faith and love.

honested
honested

@AuntieChrist  

It keeps them from addressing the inadequate revenue they have enforced on everyone to keep their campaign trickles flowing from above.

BlueWorld
BlueWorld

@Kamchak  

1% of all unintentional deaths for children in the US under the age of 14 are from firearms. (1)

In 2001 there were 72 accidental firearm deaths for children under the age of 15. That same year the same age range had 2,100 drownings.(2)



------------------

(1) Deaths: Final Data for 2006, National Vital Statistics Reports, 2009, Center for Disease Control

(2) 20 Leading Causes of Unintentional Injury Deaths ,Center for Disease Control, , United States, 2001, (All Races, Both Sexes, Ages: 1-14)

AuntieChrist
AuntieChrist

@Kamchak Looks like we need to pass a law allowing students in Pre-K to carry guns. For their protection ya know.

PFD664
PFD664

Don't forget when you vote democrat you get more taxes, more welfare and food stamps

Kamchak
Kamchak

...they should not have been armed, right?


Posted by no one but you.

Just sayin'.

Kamchak
Kamchak

And it's important to note that direct action by armed personnel stopped the threat.

It is also important to note that the Secret Service subdued John Hinckley Jr. without firing a single shot.

Ralph-43
Ralph-43

@BlueWorld James Brady and Ronald Reagan would have been considerably safer if a known personality disorder, John Hinckley, Jr. had not been sold a hand gun.  This person had also stalked Jimmy Carter and been arrested for inappropriate possession of a fire-arm.  Ban Hand Guns.  Eventually, common sense will prevail.

AuntieChrist
AuntieChrist

@BlueWorld @Kamchak   So explain to us what would have happened if hinckley had gotten his hands on the high capacity magazines that your NRA brethren fight so hard to put into the hands of every gun owner.

Kamchak
Kamchak

So explain to us how they would have been safer if the secret service were carrying 'No Gun Zone' signs instead.


Explain to me where I said anything at all about No Gun Zone signs.

Kamchak
Kamchak

In 2001 there were 72 accidental firearm deaths for children under the age of 15.


And that is 72 too many

Kamchak
Kamchak

Looks like we need to pass a law allowing students in Pre-K to carry guns. For their protection ya know.


A "crawl your ground" law?

Shar1
Shar1

@honested @KamchakThere's no way to know that as the NRA-bought Congress passed a law that forbids gun data from being collected and analyzed in any but the most basic ways.  If we had the actual information, Americans couldn't stomach the result of this gun hysteria.

Bernie31
Bernie31

@PFD664 Who Might be the biggest users of those Welfare and Food Stamp Benefits? Becky and DEM (2) Two Kids! While JOHN BOY is now with Mary and her kids and not paying Becky NOTHING. But Poor Becky is working a low wage full-time Job plus a 20 hour part time job and still cannot afford food and Healthcare for her and DEM (2) two kids.


Seems ta me someone needs to have a Talk with John Boy. Go sell some of dem guns and bullets, stop getting DRUNK, and spending all of his money at the Pink Pony, Fishin, and huntin.

uh...huh.

honested
honested

@PFD664  

Wouldn't it be nice to have adequate taxation and be able to run an adequate, Civilized government again!

13 years of unwarranted tax cuts ant 13 years of negative or minimal growth.

Thanks gop!

Baumer_1
Baumer_1

More freedom, more security, more political equality, more meritocracy

glockowner
glockowner

@Point well ask the 27+ dead in china when those high capacity knives were there

Point
Point

She talked him down by praying with him and for him. See, Jesus doesn't need guns.

NWGAL
NWGAL

And imagine Antoinette Tuff responding to the armed guy in the Decatur school with a drawn weapon instead of talking him down.

honested
honested

@Kamchak  

Standard dodge.

They won't answer the question, just wax nostalgic on nonsense.

mrob
mrob

@Kamchak  


BlueWorld is full of sad people that carry guns.

AuntieChrist
AuntieChrist

@BlueWorld @Kamchak Well so far we have learned that parents should be more careful drivers, supervise their children more closely when they swim, teach them not to play with matches, and keep medicines and poisons out of reach. The fact that they don't do a good job in these areas excuses the fact that children die unnecessarily from gun violence. Is that your point?

BlueWorld
BlueWorld

@Kamchak  


In 1998 1,499 children under 15 were killed in transportation related incidents, 1,118 suffocated, 726 drowned, 308 were killed by fires, and 94 from poisonings.


------

Deaths: Final for 1998,Center for Disease Control, vol. 48 no. 11., July 24, 2000

P-Evans
P-Evans

@Kamchak  

Don't kids in Pre-K have adults to watch over them?

Oh, but you don't trust grown citizens to be armed - they must still be children in your eyes.


Don't quit your day job. Jimmy Fallon's job is already taken, LOL.

BlueWorld
BlueWorld

@Shar1 @honested @Kamchak  

Congress barred the CDC from funding gun related studies, it did not wholesale ban the collection of data. This happened after a number of reports were revealed to have been based on bad science, but still used for political purposes.


The CDC has plenty of gun related injury and death reports, and the Bureau of Justice Statistics has no shortage of criminal gun related information.


But none of it is friendly to gun control positions.