Posted: 12:52 pm Thursday, January 23rd, 2014

Campus-carry bill dealt a killing blow, state lawmaker says 

By Jim Galloway

State Rep. Alan Powell, R-Hartswell, said a full year of negotiations over a bill to permit the carrying of concealed weapons on public university campuses has been for naught – after the General Assembly’s legal counsel pronounced a floated compromise unconstitutional.

The Legislature had been headed toward a measure that would have permitted university presidents to decide whether or not students – licensed and 21 years or older – would be permitted to carry weaponry in bookbags and on their person.

But on Tuesday, Powell and state Rep. Rick Jasperse, R-Jasper, were informed that optional provisions – whether “opt in” or “opt out” – wouldn’t pass muster. University presidents can’t decide what is a crime and what is not. Read the legal opinion here.

Said Powell:

“You cannot legislatively yield away legislative rights to individuals. It’s unconstitutional for us to give college presidents the right to decide [campus carry].”

Powell said he was surprised by the opinion, because the optional provision was originally pitched last year by the Board of Regents – which has opposed previous guns-on-campuses legislation.

Powell said he expects a new bill to be dropped on Monday.

The university said they liked that idea last year. “Right now we’re looking at not even including campus carry,” he said.

The bill is likely to address mental health restrictions on those who are allowed to carry concealed. “We’re trying to go out of our way not to alienate anybody’s rights,” the Hartwell lawmaker said.

But even that is controversial among the most ardent of Second Amendment enthusiasts. Powell said he has pushed for a passage that would bar concealed-carry permits to those who have been adjudicated not guilty of a crime by reason of insanity.

“That’s the stuff they don’t want in the bill,” he said.

Updated: The Associated Press has now filed this:

ATLANTA (AP) — A key Georgia lawmaker says a provision that would have allowed students to carry weapons on public college campuses will be dropped from a revised gun bill expected to be introduced soon.

Rep. John Meadows, chair of the House Rules Committee, said in an interview Thursday that the bill will instead focus on enhancing reporting of the mentally ill and empowering local school districts to arm employees if they wish.

Last year’s bill that would have expanded gun rights on public college campuses and in churches ultimately failed amid objection from university system officials.

Meadows says a potential compromise that would have given university presidents the option of allowing guns didn’t pass legal review. Meadows says “the power designated to the General Assembly can’t be given to the university presidents.”

94 comments
P-Evans
P-Evans

@Rick_C

@Rick_C


Intended use does not exist in a vacuum; it is up to the individual using the item. Just as cars can be used outside their generally intended use, guns are no different in that regard.


If you believe that the intended use of firearms is to harm and kills others, then know that good people, whether those good people have a badge or not, have used their guns to save lives, often without firing a shot, and often without killing the bad guy even when a shot was fired. And even when the bad guy is killed preventing a rape or murder, that's not a bad thing now is it?


Get over your fear of inanimate objects, even those that are weapons. You wouldn't complain if a good person used a gun to save you from being harmed or killed by a criminal.


Dangerous weapons are needed in society, because the strong prey on the weak. A gun gives an otherwise defenseless person a fighting chance against an armed attacker or multiple attackers.


If someone dangerous is trying to hurt me or my loved ones, then I want to be just as dangerous to them. I will shoot a bad guy if I have to, but I will not harm innocent people. That's just my intended use of firearms, and my 2 cents.



P-Evans
P-Evans

Cagle's opt-in approach for colleges gives college presidents the power to makes criminals of good people who would carry their guns for self-defense. Cagle cowardly wants to throw the political heat to non-politicians (college presidents), instead of having the courage to do the right thing himself.


Cagle must go!

Ralph-43
Ralph-43

According to a recent Gallup report, Americans age 18 to 29 are the least likely to own guns, with just 20 percent claiming that they do.With less than 5 percent of the world’s population, U.S. citizens now own 40 percent of all firearms in civilian hands. On average guns killed 88 Americans and injured 202 each day during 2011 (N Engl J Med 2013:368:397-399).U.S. firearm homicides are 20 times higher and firearm suicides are 6 times higher than in other developed countries. Gun owners are statistically, significantly, more likely to commit murder and to eventually commit suicide (Univ Penn LDI Issue Brief 2003;8(8), 1-4).These college level young adults know that trying to pull a gun on an armed robber is the best way to get killed.They also know that depression and various forms of rejection can lead this age group to suicidal ideation.Conclusion:only a really stupid person would even suggest that arming college students will improve their safety or well being.Most likely, the students will be smarter than those elected Republican representatives attempting to promote the South’s gun culture.

badA94TA
badA94TA

Being a college student myself,I am in full support of a campus carry bill. I take night classes because of my work schedule and to say my campus (or any other campus) isn't well lit is an understatement. Walking across campus at night is in no way safe, the parking deck has no repeaters so cell reception is nonexistent inside the parking deck. Due to the recent school shootings, I have to constantly worry about if i'm going be shot by someone that somehow made it past the "no guns" signs. That brings me to my next point, campus security is a joke. Does anyone really think that a handful of campus security officers (no more than 5 at one time) can effectively patrol an almost 60 acre campus? I'd like to also point out that while colleges are against campus carry, they certainly are not against the fact that we have to sign a waiver releasing them from any and all liability while on campus. So even if this bill did pass and they chose not to allow campus carry and I got shot while on campus, they aren't legally responsible or obligated to help me in any way.

So here's where I stand on campus carry: if the schools are so against campus carry, then cover my injuries when I get shot on your campus because your policies prevented me from defending myself. If they don't want to be held liable for students injuries on their campus, then allow campus carry.

It's wrong for them to work so hard to prevent students from defending themselves on campus while also offering us so little protection as an alternative with the underlying policy that if you do get hurt because of them, they aren't obligated to help you.

WoofyOne
WoofyOne

We kept our shotguns, deer rifles and pistols in our rooms at Russell Hall in the 70s. Nobody thought it odd when you walked through the lobby in your hunting gear

Kamchak
Kamchak

My weapon is strictly for me to protect my family, friends & myself from harm. In the event you, your family/friends are being assaulted near me I promise to respect your decision, not interfere & allow you to use your liberalism to talk the purp[sic] out of his crime!


The fevered vigilante wet dream of someone who imagines himself Paul Kersey.

Verylucrative
Verylucrative

But we can dress them in a combat uniform, give them a gun and some supplies, and send them halfway around the world to kill another!

DontTread
DontTread

"You cannot legislatively yield away legislative rights to individuals. It’s unconstitutional for us to give college presidents the right to decide [campus carry]."


Hmm....Giving a government bureaucrat decision making power over "legislative rights to individuals" never stopped them before, on this issue or a host of other issues (especially in blue states).

DeniseCaldon
DeniseCaldon

During my 15 years in the Office of the President of a USG college - now Middle Georgia State College - I had a student who frantically came to my office and said, "I keep having dreams of me shooting my professor and fellow students! Can you help me?" I took the steps I felt appropriate (as there was no training then). The administrators never asked for my notes with the information I obtained during our conversation. It was clear they did not want any record of the incident on file. When I informed the President - when he finally came to work - his response was, "That is not a concern of mine - tell Student Affairs."  

Frankie581000
Frankie581000

But on Tuesday, Powell and state Rep. Rick Jasperse, R-Jasper, were informed that optional provisions – whether “opt in” or “opt out” – wouldn't pass muster. University presidents can’t decide what is a crime and what is not......then I guess that also applies to where we carry everywhere else then too....store owners can't decide what is a crime or not, etc....

Andy123
Andy123

Hell, I remember back in the late 80's and early 90's at high schools in metro ATL, you could have a shotgun or deer rifle in the back window of your pickup if you were 18yo. 

Onetyme
Onetyme

And if they did carry them no one knew about it.

Onetyme
Onetyme

I remember my college days and I cringe at the thoughts of some of the people on my campus carry comcealed weapons

Andy123
Andy123

If you're 21 or over, keep it in your bag or purse and STFU about it!  That's what we did 15 years ago. 

Onetyme
Onetyme

I am glad someone has some sense in state government.

LogicalDude
LogicalDude

I can see a vote by the Regents on allowing Campus Carry: "NO" 


So, it's good to drop the bill.  Because once you allow Campus Carry, then you'll need to allow Government Building Carry, State Park Carry, and Public School Carry, and of course the Texan style Capital Building Carry.

Mr_B
Mr_B

"At the end of the day people should be allowed the freedom to live their own lives, to marry, to live where they wish, to consume what they want and to own & carry firearms"


To marry whom you want can't kill me or mine.

To live where you wish can't harm me or mine.

To consume what you want can only only affect you.


Your firearm has the potential to destroy others.

I don't want it around me, particularly if I don't know you have it. 


badA94TA
badA94TA

There's a few problems with your argument(s):

1) how recent is this "recent Gallup poll? You say 20% of 18 to 29 year olds like it is a small number. Even if it were, is it really fair to deny us our right to defend ourselves based on one poll that found we are statistically less likely to own a gun?

2) your daily average of Americans killed and injured by guns is based on reported incidents and does not take into account how many times guns are used by a law abiding citizen to stop a crime or used to defend themselves. The numbers for guns being used to stop a crime or in self defense are far greater than the stats you quoted, but those were not included in your quote, how convenient.

3) where are your sources for U.S. firearm homicides and suicides?

4) your statistic on gun owners committing murder and suicide is 11 years old and holds no weight now.

5) while some may think that pulling a gun on an armed robber is the best way to get killed, most, if not all, students know that they are completely unarmed and defensless on campus as the only thing that stands between them and a robber, rapist, or any other criminal is a "no guns" sign the criminal chose to ignore.

6) since you brought it up, name one gun suicide that happened on a campus after that campus allowed campus carry. You won't find one.

Conclusion: students are NOT better off disarmed on campus and only a really stupid person would suggest otherwise. College students make the perfect targets for criminals because criminals are guaranteed that their target is unarmed, and their target is most likely carrying objects of value such as laptops, tablets, textbooks, and cash. Most likely, students will realize this is a safety issue involving their safety and well being on campus and support campus carry. They have seen how ineffective gun control is at stopping crime and deterring criminals and would rather have a chance of survival, however small it may be, than to have no chance at all and die cowering in a corner at the hands of a criminal who has no regard for the law or life.

PrezObozo1
PrezObozo1

@Kamchak Not me pudding pants. I'm not worried about what happens to you! I won't even witness enough to testify on your behave at a trial. You are on your own!!!!! I have had a lic & carried a weapon for many years. Once I was confronted by a girlfriends ex who was armed with two knives. He was threating me but not advancing. I knew how far I could go & this situation did not warrant me even displaying my weapon. I was able to simple walk away. You watch too much TV & probably play too many silly & violent video games!

PrezObozo1
PrezObozo1

@DeniseCaldon Amen. The grossly over paid administrators hold strict zero tolerance policies toward bs items like finger nail files to make themselves look good. They learn they may have a nut case on their hands they order it kept quiet & sweep it under the rug! When something happens they lie & claim they had no knowledge of a dangerous situation. The state rewards them with huge raises!!

Bullwinkle1
Bullwinkle1

@Frankie581000 The operative word is owner.  As property owner, I have certain rights as to what's allowed on my premises.  College/university presidents are only employees and not owners.  Therefore, they have limitations.

PrezObozo1
PrezObozo1

@Onetyme As I have said before my weapon is strictly for me to protect my family, friends & myself from harm. In the event you, your family/friends are being assaulted near me I promise to respect your decision, not interfere & allow you to use your liberalism to talk the purp out of his crime! 

AM1
AM1

@LogicalDude State Park carry is already legal with a license. Some government buildings are already legal for carry (rest stops). Public Schools can choose to arm staff or anyone else per 16-11-127.1c(6) "A person who has been authorized in writing by a duly authorized official of the school to have in such person's possession or use as part of any activity being conducted at a school building, school property, or school function a weapon which would otherwise be prohibited by this Code section. Such authorization shall specify the weapon or weapons which have been authorized and the time period during which the authorization is valid;" There are school systems in Georgia who have discreetly taken advantage of this provision.

So, most of what you listed is already legal.

Frankie581000
Frankie581000

@Mr_B  Are you really that PARANOID??.."I don't want it around me, particularly if I don't know you have it."...

PrezObozo1
PrezObozo1

@Mr_B - Same to you mr.b. My weapon is strictly for me to protect my family, friends & myself from harm. In the event you, your family/friends are being assaulted near me I promise to respect your decision, not interfere & allow you to use your liberalism to talk the purp out of his crime! 

Just someone
Just someone

@Mr_B Cars have the potential to destroy others. Do you want to have them around?

CherokeeCounty
CherokeeCounty

Or, perhaps he just read the true story of the retired cop - no doubt better trained than you - who didn't know 'how far' he could go, and killed a young father over a text message.

Frankie581000
Frankie581000

Well  then Bullwinkle...as "owners" the State Legislature can then make that decision now can't they....if it is passed as a LAW to ALLOW, then the "owners" have spoken...and made this "opinion" as written...moot!!

JB-
JB-

@Just someone @Mr_B  Cars are heavily regulated. To drive one you must pass a test and have a license; to buy or sell one you must record the sale and pay a tax. Owning a vehicle requires you to register the vehicle with the state and carry insurance. If you act irresponsibly your insurance goes up, you are fined, and/or jailed and eventually you lose the right altogether. As a gun owner I would like to see all those rules applied to gun ownership - training, licensing, sales records, registration and insurance to pay benefits to victims of gun crime.

CharlesHendrix
CharlesHendrix

@Just someone @Mr_B Typical sock puppet comment. You want to talk cars? The logic (rather the lack thereof) that a lot of pro-gun CLOWNS spew, More guns carried by more people. in more places, will make people safer".. Right and more cars being driven on more roads will reduce traffic fatalities. Only a total moron would believe such nonsense. More guns carried by more people in more places = more death at the end of gun barrel. Does smoke come out of your ears if you try to think and use a little sense?

Rick_C
Rick_C

@Just someone Cars actually serve a pretty vital role in society.  Their intended use is also not to kill or harm others.

AuntieChrist
AuntieChrist

@Just someone@Mr_B Cars don't kill people, the idiots driving them do. Guns don't kill people, the idiots that carry them everywhere do.

badA94TA
badA94TA

Not as well trained as you may think.There was an incident in new York involving two nypd officers that shot and killed a man with a gun. The officers shot him at less than ten feet away, firing 16 rounds and injuring 9 innocent bystanders in the process. In some places, police are only required to certify with their firearm once per year. Not all police are as highly trained as you think they are.

deboraham05
deboraham05

@DeniseCaldon I agree, colleges are indifferent to anything that is not related to learning and coming to class. This is not professional nor is it a setting that young adults need to be demanded to live around. Colleges today feel that they sell diplomas and parents have to train their children to become productive citizens. The students must be mature enough to make decisions when they come to college. Guns on campus would be a disaster.


Just someone
Just someone

@JB-@Just someone@Mr_B Same thing with a gun. If you are irresponsible, then the rights get taken away. the insurance part I don't under stand. So we the money we pay could go to families of gun members who died in a gang shooting? And how does registration prevent gun violence? its like saying registering you car will prevent car related deaths.

Just someone
Just someone

@Rick_C@PrezObozo1 The point is this if people are not going to follow any laws new or current, then why make the lives of the people more miserable, if it has no effect?

PrezObozo1
PrezObozo1

@Rick_C @PrezObozo1 That should be obvious. Banning guns from CITIZENS will not stop thuggery! Criminals will ALWAYS break laws. Banning violent movies, video games & having prisons here like they have in places like Turkey would help thugs think twice!

PrezObozo1
PrezObozo1

@JB- I agree with training, licensing, sales records but no reg or ins. The government simply cannot be trusted & if I attack your wife/daughter, you shoot me, a slick bottom feeding attorney will hand pick a liberal jury & I will be receiving the benefits!

Rick_C
Rick_C

@PrezObozo1 And your point is what exactly?  People are always going to break laws.  Does that mean we shouldn't have them?

PrezObozo1
PrezObozo1

@JB- @Just someone @Mr_B - First the Ga driving test is joke! Second I know a few people who have been in auto accidents (No fault of their own) & the illegal ALIEN who hit them had no driver license, expired tag & NO INSURANCE!! Wow! Who would ever thought!

Just someone
Just someone

@CharlesHendrix@Just someone@Mr_B The majority of the Gun violence/ death are suicides about 70% so what are you really trying to say? roughly the amount of gun related death is about 30,000 it has been around that for a while, But then the number of guns sold skyrocketed...

GeorgeTatro
GeorgeTatro

What I love most about this response is that in the previous post @PrezObozo1 accuses @Rick_C of generalizations and straw men and then immediately engages in an Ad hominem attack which is both a fallacy and error in logic and then later goes on to generalize the hip-hop crowd and their behavior.  It is ironic and made me smile.

P-Evans
P-Evans

@Rick_C



Intended use does not exist in a vacuum; it is up to the individual using the item. Just as cars can be used outside their generally intended use, guns are no different in that regard.


If you believe that the intended use of firearms is to harm and kills others, then know that good people, whether those good people have a badge or not, have used their guns to save lives, often without firing a shot, and often without killing the bad guy even when a shot was fired. And even when the bad guy is killed preventing a rape or murder, that's not a bad thing now is it?


Get over your fear of inanimate objects, even those that are weapons. You wouldn't complain if a good person used a gun to save you from being harmed or killed by a criminal.


Dangerous weapons are needed in society, because the strong prey on the weak. A gun gives an otherwise defenseless person a fighting chance against an armed attacker or multiple attackers.


If someone dangerous is trying to hurt me or my loved ones, then I want to be just as dangerous to them. I will shoot a bad guy if I have to, but I will not harm innocent people. That's just my intended use of firearms, and my 2 cents.

P-Evans
P-Evans

@Rick_C


Intended use does not exist in a vacuum; it is up to the individual using the item. Just as cars can be used outside their generally intended use, guns are no different in that regard.


If you believe that the intended use of firearms is to harm and kills others, then know that good people, whether those good people have a badge or not, have used their guns to save lives, often without firing a shot, and often without killing the bad guy even when a shot was fired. And even when the bad guy is killed preventing a rape or murder, that's not a bad thing now is it?


Get over your fear of inanimate objects, even those that are weapons. You wouldn't complain if a good person used a gun to save you from being harmed or killed by a criminal.


Dangerous weapons are needed in society, because the strong prey on the weak. A gun gives an otherwise defenseless person a fighting chance against an armed attacker or multiple attackers.


If someone dangerous is trying to hurt me or my loved ones, then I want to be just as dangerous to them. I will shoot a bad guy if I have to, but I will not harm innocent people. That's just my intended use of firearms, and my 2 cents.

Just someone
Just someone

@Rick_C@Just someone What about knives? almost everyone have a knife block in their houses. Do you think the knife was invented to cut fruits and vegetables? Or was it made for killing animals? Plus criminals also rob people at knifepoint

Kamchak
Kamchak

@PrezObozo1

Never allow facts to get in the way.

And exactly which "facts" are those, sport?

Please identify these "facts" and provide proof of these "facts".


And by all means, show your work.


Just requestin'.


Rick_C
Rick_C

@PrezObozo1 Oh give me a break.  Your arguments are pure generalizations and straw men.

Rick_C
Rick_C

@PrezObozo1 If you want to have a serious discussion on this, I'm open to it.  If your arguments are just going to be a bunch of nonsense and BS, you're not worth the time.

PrezObozo1
PrezObozo1

@Rick_C @Just someone - Not when they are driving by the young hip-hop crowd with tramp stamps, ear bobs & a noise blaring from the speakers while they text & tweet!

Trackbacks

  1. […] Guns on campus received a fatal headshot from legislative counsel. From the AJC: […]

  2. […] Campus-carry bill dealt a killing blow, state lawmaker says […]

  3. […] students with concealed weapon permits to carry guns on campus, but a panel of legal experts say a proposed compromise would violate the state constitution. That aspect of a pending gun law was then removed. The issue won’t be settled this […]